Weil-McLain 88 vs. 94

AMurray

Which Weil-McLain steam boiler model has less problems, the WM 88 or 94? Please elaborate.

STEVEusaPA

Maybe you should elaborate. But for me, this one is easier, relatively speaking, to put together, if it meets your capacity.
http://www.2hsc.com/pdfs/burnham/seriesv9_broch.pdf

AMurray

Too small. Need 75 BHP. The Weil-McLain 88 and 94 both come in this capacity. I am not concerned with difficulty of installation. I am concerned with operating problems after installation.

STEVEusaPA

I think you still need to explain more, otherwise the Wall will have to use it's powers of telepathy to figure out what you want to know.
Define operating problems? It's usually components that create problems after proper installation, piping and set up. And lack of maintenance.

Gas or oil? Gas & oil?
Are you using a coil for domestic?
What's there now?
etc., etc.

ScottSecor

If money is no object and there are no issues with the added weight or physical size of the 94 sections, I think they are a better boiler. Better clean out plates, better supply headers (cast iron flanged connections), better front door refractory and perhaps a better cabinet. I also prefer the tappings on the 94 as compared to the 88.

That being said, we've only installed a few 94 boilers over the years and about two dozen 88 boilers. Most of the time the customer is not willing to pay the added cost of the 94 or in some cases we are not up to the task of dragging them down into the basement.

Another issue around here (NJ) was the 94 sections were much harder to get, not sure that's still the case or not.

The Steam Whisperer

You might also want to look at the Peerless TC-II. The sections are beefier than the 88, but not as heavy as the 94 and it has mud legs at all 4 corners, which the 88 doesn't. Peerless also requires better piping( threaded fittings) on it than the 88 ( welded) and, strangely enough, than the identical Smith boiler ( same TCII casting in a different jacket)

Dave0176

Here's an 88 I just installed with all screwed fittings.

nicholas bonham-carter

Is this boiler to be used for heating, or some other purpose?
What is installed now, and if it has failed, what cause can be determined? The most frequent cause of boiler failure is the constant filling of fresh oxygenated water as a result of system steam leaks. Some areas have water problems which also can shorten the life of the boiler. In these cases, the water should be analyzed, and a proper water treatment applied. If the water is not a problem, then no chemical treatment will be needed.
A well installed heating boiler should last 35 years with proper maintenance.--NBC

newagedawn

i also like peerless steamers, ive had no problems at all

The Steam Whisperer

Very Nice install Dave 0176. You probably added 15 to 20 years of life to the boiler by using threaded. We don't see that many 88 around here, mostly cheap LGB-s, with the typical life being about 14 years. They either rot out (system leaks) or begin leaking at the gaskets between sections....most likely due to the welded headers that are used just about universallly on them.

AMurray

Are surging problems about the same for the Weil-McLain 88 and 94?
Also, why are threaded fittings considered better?

KC_Jones

AMurray said:

Are surging problems about the same for the Weil-McLain 88 and 94?
Also, why are threaded fittings considered better?

Surging occurs due to improper installation or not skimming the boiler properly after installation. If everything is done properly the boiler shouldn't surge.

ScottSecor

We've found some issues with W/M 88, PB TCII and identical Smith 28 boilers surging due to filthy water, over-firing, flame impinging on section walls poor piping.

Many believe that using all threaded fittings allow for expansion (often twisting) better than welded fittings. Either we got very lucky over the years or there is enough expansion by using threaded nipple(s) coming out of the top of the top of the boiler to the bottom of a threaded 150lb. steel flange. The top half of the flange is also threaded and the rest of the header and the equalizer drop are welded. Also header to steam main is typically welded. Not sure where contractors are buying 8", 10" and 12" threaded cast iron fittings or what pipe wrenches they are using to assemble these headers for larger boilers (W/M 988 and larger require at least 8" header). I don't see myself cranking 10" fittings in my lifetime.

Steamhead

Weil-McLain's take on welded headers is here:

http://www.weil-mclain.com/download/file/fid/3019

Personally, I would use this as a minimum standard.

ScottSecor

Excellent drawing Steamhead, that's almost exactly how we do it, with the exception of the bushings coming out of the top of the sections (unless we need more risers for larger boilers). We prefer to always run full size 5" risers. I remembered seeing your drawing and discussing the issue with a NJ State boiler inspector.

The Steam Whisperer

Here's what we do. No need to use those big header tees since they are really not providing movement anyway. Just all threaded on the drop header 90s, so the swing arms can actually swing. A welded swing arm isn't going to move much without flexing the castings.

nicholas bonham-carter

When you try to take apart old threaded fittings on an old boiler header, you may wonder whether there is really enough give in the joints to avoid stressing the block. Maybe the give is only needed in the early days of steaming, so as to adjust to any stresses due to thermal creep.
The Peerless piping diagram doesn't show much rise in the pipes coming out of the top. In addition, they could have modified the end plate arrangement to give more width in the discharge for skimming, (as in Hatterasguy's ski port pipe modification).
I like that little video screen on the side to keep you amused while skimming the boiler for hours at a time!
It's time to develop a piping arrangement which separates the oily water, and does not allow it to flow back into the boiler. Maybe a surge column with a valve drain at water level height for drawing off the oils floating there on top of the water. In every hour of steaming, maybe 5% of the oil would collect there, and later be drained off by the customer.--NBC

The Steam Whisperer

A skim port on the header drain could help a lot. A whole bunch of oil gets caught there.

nicholas bonham-carter

Aha just the sort of thing I was thinking off.--NBC

The Steam Whisperer

Great Minds...........

AMurray

Anyone know why Smith 28HE shows a Harford loop for gravity return, but not pumped return on multi boiler install?
Also, any recommendations on piping a boiler overflow trap when there are no returns nearby?