Old American Standard boiler--flame questions

candilea

Hi there,
I've got what I think might be a 1960s-ish AS boiler. It is a thing I've come to have a mostly-love relationship with, after learning bits about how it works and how to maintain it (as much as I should or can). I just had a plumber out the other day because there was a pretty awful burn smell on startup. Did a major clean of loads of soot, and on startup after that, there were huge yellow/orange flames and rollout (I think I'm using the correct terms??) and still a smell. The plumber was very surprised, and suggested I get the masonry chimney checked as a next step, and we turned the thing back off. Chimney cleaner came out next day, chimney was very clear, and I also cleaned out the metal trap at base (that was sort of terrifying).

So, I did a little more poking around before calling the plumber back/another plumber. Found that I could remove the top cast iron part of the actual boiler, and found more soot to clean there. After that, I relit the pilot and started up--no more smell, but still major flame and rollout. Turned it back off, put in call to plumber to see if they would come back to check again, did a little research, and was able to find the gas pressure screw. I'll start by saying I know I shouldn't mess with this stuff, but I did. I adjusted the screw down until the flames were all blue and much shorter. My pilot is blue too, btw. I do not have a manometer or combustion analyzer, and I know that is the next step--the plumber who was out did not check those things, so I am going with a different one this time.

So, short story made long (sorry), I guess I'm just looking for some advice on what the flames should look like when fired up? I imagine there is no one-size-fits-all answer, and combustion and efficiency will tell me more. But--on a properly running, old, natural gas boiler, are the flames often a couple inches high when fired? Six-eight inches? Are they entirely blue, or can there be a few licks of yellow here and there? What is realistic? I felt like the really high flames were just...too high. It seemed wrong.

Thank you!

JUGHNE

Pictures would help.........far back from boiler.......also close up of gas valve and piping to gas valve........nameplate of boiler.

Jamie Hall

Something was wrong, for sure -- probably gas pressure was off, but could be bad regulation or any number of things. The only sure way to do this right is to get someone who knows gas burners out there (a plumber might -- or might not) with the appropriate manometers and combustion test equipment and make sure everything is set right.

Lance

Danger Will Robinson, Danger!
Need a pro. Get the facts, gas pressures in and at manifold, flue temps, draft pressures, Co2 or O2 with an analyzer. Gas should never burn sooty. A combination gas control valve is a pressure regulator,on off valve. They can fail, rupture, get dirty, etc. A poor mans manometer is a bucket of water, a tape ruler and a hose connection. When the bubbles of gas stop leaving the hose at the depth the end is at, the inches can be recorded. Normal is determined by code and the manufacture's specs. For instance, a typical manifold pressure for CH4, (Methane, natural gas) can be 3.5" water column or 4". Blue tips, and no lifting off the burner, height is not a value. Pressure is the measure. Clock the meter to determine if input matches specifications. Make sure chimney does not leak, breach, or back draft. Need a licensed gas fitter in my state.

candilea

Okay--a few photos. I could not, for the life of me, find a plate with serial number or anything.

front of boiler


gas valve and pilot


from side, where gas pipe goes in to valve


Thank you!

candilea

Sorry the pics are so big...
I am definitely having someone come to check. I've had a little problem finding people who service boilers. I called hvac places first, and they recommended a heating/plumbing business (once I figured out that many regular hvac placed didn't service, I still called a couple to see just who they did recommend). First went with a place that had serviced before (replaced an old Bell Gossett pump with the unit you see on the side photo. That is the person who then didn't check any of the measurements, so I sort of feel like trying a different place.

I will get a pro to come out, I just like to have as many facts or as much information as I can get. My husband works in another city, and so I am usually the one dealing with stuff like this. I like to at least try and be prepared!

Thanks!

JUGHNE

If the top jacket and collector box is removed to where you can see the cast iron sections and run a long brush up and down between them the junk will fall down into the burner compartment. You would remove the burners & pilot first as they need cleaning also.
If the top will not let you get the brush between the sections than your boiler may have front cleanout ports. The front jacket would come off, there might be steel panels sealed in with furnace cement. They are about 2 1/2" wide and maybe 16" high.
They pop up to remove for cleaning and then must be cemented back in.
This is a major cleaning you probably need. Not brain surgery, just dirty work. A boiler person should figure this out.

Your nameplate might be on the panel behind the gas valve.
It looks like you have an in line gas regulator in addition to the combo gas valve, (not original) which also has a regulator built into it. You may or may need both. You need someone who knows if you do.

Where are you located?

candilea

I'm in Iowa City. Luckily, it's supposed to be in the 70s this weekend, so no boiler needed for a bit!

I am able to take off the top jacket and collector box...I did that yesterday and found more soot (and rust?) in the sections, did my best to vacuum it/knock it to the floor and vacuum. I think I cleaned about 5 lbs of material out of this thing in the last few days. I also noticed the cement seals and how they are cracked and crumbly.

I know that this might be something that needs replacing, and that is okay if it's the right decision. I like the boiler for it's sturdiness and design. Before the other Bell Gossett got replaced, I was the one to oil the ball bearings and I've tried to clean out the boiler itself as much as I knew how...obviously not well enough. I feel like I let a nice piece of equipment get ruined.

Thank you for all the input!

JUGHNE

If you get the fire side cleaned up you might check the water in the boiler. Somewhere is a boiler drain, usually a small hose bib that is too small. I replace these with a full port ball valve with a hose adaptor. This allows you to flush out any sediment in the bottom of the boiler. If there is a lot of junk on the bottom then the heat transfer suffers.
If you do drain this you will have to refill and bleed air from your heaters......sometimes this is a hassle.
If you do refill the boiler you want to bring it up to a high temp, maybe 180, for 1/2 hour or so to "cook" the oxygen out of the fresh water. Excessive fresh water contains O2 which will corrode cast iron. Usually you don't change boiler water for this reason, but if it has not been flushed for years it may be a good idea.

EBEBRATT-Ed

Cleaning the boiler with the burners in place can cause a problem. As you clean some of the soot falls down on the burners and can plug things up.

You need someone that knows what he is doing, clean and reseal boiler, remove and clean burners. and a combustion and gas pressure test

I have an old American Standard boiler myself. It's a different model but the cast Iron burners look the same. I remove mine every couple of years and but them in the laundry sink and wash em out

nicholas bonham-carter

Congratulations on going as far as you have with this!
Sometimes the local plumbing/heating supply will know which of their customers is good with boilers-maybe even a semi retired person could be found to do this for you.
Try Ferguson:
https://www.ferguson.com/branch/cedar-rapids-ia-plumbing
--NBC

JUGHNE

IIRC there were some boiler people that visited the wall from the Quad Cities, not far from you I believe.