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Steam boiler not heating

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ice_mf_mike
ice_mf_mike Member Posts: 19
edited March 2017 in Strictly Steam
So i woke up this morning and noticed that the radiators werent working. When i went to check my boiler i noticed the glass was full with water. So, i drained the water a few times and refilled(the water is clean now). However, i still have no heat. Any ideas?

Im a new homeowner with not a ton of knowledge. I had been pretty dilligent about bringing the water down to test low water cutoff once every week or two. It has definitely been about 2 or 3 weeks since i last did it however and im not sure how long the water level was so high that it was higher than visible in the glass. My low water cutoff has a "test" button. Might running that help?

Thanks.

Some pics:
http://i.imgur.com/rjsp2Ja.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Cj5Emy3.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/KowAxda.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/uVE1wQZ.jpg
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Comments

  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 11,061
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    Do you have a standing pilot light or electronic ignition?

    The boiler should not "gain" water. You may have a auto fill valve that is passing water when it shouldn't.

    Pictures from a distance will help.
  • BobC
    BobC Member Posts: 5,478
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    It's possible the pressuretrol has tripped and did not reset. Shut off the circuit breaker that powers the boiler and try moving the lever between the microswittch and the spring. That switch could have 120v on it so make sure the power is off.



    If you move that lever up and down you should hear the switch click. It's possible the pigtail under the pressuretrol is blocked and may have to be removed and cleaned.

    Bob
    Smith G8-3 with EZ Gas @ 90,000 BTU, Single pipe steam
    Vaporstat with a 12oz cut-out and 4oz cut-in
    3PSI gauge
    JJW101
  • ice_mf_mike
    ice_mf_mike Member Posts: 19
    edited March 2017
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    @JUGHNE the Pilot light is lit. I can hear it. I have been draining and refilling it(once an hour) and it doesnt seem to gain water as im monitoring it now. However at some point it must have. I do have an auto fill. When i test the low water cut off it does automatically fill back up.

    @BobC Thanks i will check this. If i do this will i have to relight the pilot(because i dont know how to do that :)

    BTW i added pictures.
  • BobC
    BobC Member Posts: 5,478
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    A standing pilot should not be affected by power loss. As to gaining water try turning the valve before the auto feeder off and monitor the boiler water level for a day or two. Its possible something got stuck on the valve seat allowing water to leak by the auto fill.

    Bob
    Smith G8-3 with EZ Gas @ 90,000 BTU, Single pipe steam
    Vaporstat with a 12oz cut-out and 4oz cut-in
    3PSI gauge
  • ice_mf_mike
    ice_mf_mike Member Posts: 19
    edited March 2017
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    Thanks. @BobC Is the auto feeder valve the same valve i open when i manually add water to it? Or is this something different?
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 11,061
    edited March 2017
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    As Bob said your pressuretrol may be stuck. Overfilling may have backed up sludge into the pigtail and fooled the switch.

    An easy look would be to unscrew the pressure gauge and push some thing thru the pigtail loop under it. Be sure the power is off and the water level is below that height.
    You need an adjustable wrench on the gauge bottom flats and a good pliers or small pipe wrench on the pigtail itself.

    The pilot will stay on for anything we have mentioned.
  • BobC
    BobC Member Posts: 5,478
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    The manual feed valve is usually piped across the auto feed, there sb a valve on the pipe that feeds into the auto feed and that is the one that should disable it.

    Bob
    Smith G8-3 with EZ Gas @ 90,000 BTU, Single pipe steam
    Vaporstat with a 12oz cut-out and 4oz cut-in
    3PSI gauge
  • ice_mf_mike
    ice_mf_mike Member Posts: 19
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    On a scale of 1 to 10 (1 being super easy and 10 being you may blow up your house) how easy/difficult is this for someone like me who is not good at this stuff? Any youtube videos? Ill try to provide some additional pics of the pigtail and the valves to get confirmation before i go in. Though im thinking i may need to suck it up and call someone.
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 11,061
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    Shut the power off......exercise the switch as Bob said.....turn power back on.... it might fire. Not brain surgery......might get you thru this Sunday.
    Plenty of youtube stuff, use the "search" on this site to get you started.

    More pictures a little farther back. Include the fill valve and any other valves near it. Also the exhaust flue damper if you have one.....tin pipe coming out the top/back of boiler.
  • Danny Scully
    Danny Scully Member Posts: 1,424
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    How can you see the water level in the dirty glass?
  • ice_mf_mike
    ice_mf_mike Member Posts: 19
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    @Danny Scully i can see it if i shine my light on the glass. Not easy but i can see it.

    @JUGHNE ill give that a try and also provide more pics.
  • Danny Scully
    Danny Scully Member Posts: 1,424
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    You've dropped the level completely to activate the LWCO, causing the boiler to feed, and it still won't come on?
  • ice_mf_mike
    ice_mf_mike Member Posts: 19
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    More pics of the piping and such:
    http://i.imgur.com/PzCkd43.jpg
    http://i.imgur.com/QN0GgQb.jpg
    http://i.imgur.com/PzCkd43.jpg
  • ice_mf_mike
    ice_mf_mike Member Posts: 19
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    @Danny Scully Thats correct. Been doing this once an hour. However, the boiler isnt on so it cant auto shut off to begin with! So i just fill it back up.

    Im going to try the other suggestions later when i get back home. Thanks. Let me know if you see anything else based on the additional pics.
  • Danny Scully
    Danny Scully Member Posts: 1,424
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    When you say the boiler isn't on, you mean you don't have power at the boiler?
  • ice_mf_mike
    ice_mf_mike Member Posts: 19
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    @Danny Scully no I mean not steam heat being pushed to the radiators.
  • Danny Scully
    Danny Scully Member Posts: 1,424
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    Try and do as I'm describing, drain the water until the LWCO activates, causing the feeder to fill the boiler.
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 23,289
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    OK. Let's go back to square one. The boiler is off, and cool. You have electric power at the boiler turned on. Now, set the water level in the sight gauge at half way up. Go and turn the thermostat up as far as you can -- or better, have someone else do that while you are at the boiler. What happens? The burner should -- possibly after a short pause with just a blower -- turn on and light. More to the point, it should stay on. After a short period of time -- a few minutes -- the boiler should start to make steam, and the steam pipes should be getting hot. Once the steam pipes start getting hot, the radiators should start getting hot.

    That's what's supposed to happen. Consider starting at square one back up there and record exactly what happens and when and report back. That will help us figure out where in the sequence of things something is amiss...
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 11,061
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    When you turn the power switch back on do you hear anything?
    Your standing pilot is independent of any electricity being applied to the boiler BTH.

    Does your T-stat have batteries? If so change them.

    If your T-stat is calling for heat the vent damper motor on the back should open first before burner coming on. That motor should whine/buzz for a few seconds as it opens a damper inside the flue pipe. You can usually see the shaft on the opposite side of the motor on the flue pipe. It should rotate 90 degrees. Only after that opens your burner can fire. This comes first as far as things in the basement go.
  • ice_mf_mike
    ice_mf_mike Member Posts: 19
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    > @Danny Scully said:
    > Try and do as I'm describing, drain the water until the LWCO activates, causing the feeder to fill the boiler.

    i have done this at least 5 times. Auto fill does not fill the boiler. I have to do it manually.
  • ice_mf_mike
    ice_mf_mike Member Posts: 19
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    > @JUGHNE said:
    > When you turn the power switch back on do you hear anything?

    I don't recall hearing anything. I will check again.

    > Your standing pilot is independent of any electricity being applied to the boiler BTH.
    >
    > Does your T-stat have batteries? If so change them.
    >

    I can give this a try but the t-stat seems to be functioning fine and detecting proper temp in my home.


    > If your T-stat is calling for heat the vent damper motor on the back should open first before burner coming on. That motor should whine/buzz for a few seconds as it opens a damper inside the flue pipe. You can usually see the shaft on the opposite side of the motor on the flue pipe. It should rotate 90 degrees. Only after that opens your burner can fire. This comes first as far as things in the basement go.

    I will take a look at this.
  • Danny Scully
    Danny Scully Member Posts: 1,424
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    The auto fill isn't feeding at all, or not enough?
  • ice_mf_mike
    ice_mf_mike Member Posts: 19
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    Jamie Hall said:

    OK. Let's go back to square one. The boiler is off, and cool. You have electric power at the boiler turned on. Now, set the water level in the sight gauge at half way up. Go and turn the thermostat up as far as you can -- or better, have someone else do that while you are at the boiler. What happens? The burner should -- possibly after a short pause with just a blower -- turn on and light. More to the point, it should stay on. After a short period of time -- a few minutes -- the boiler should start to make steam, and the steam pipes should be getting hot. Once the steam pipes start getting hot, the radiators should start getting hot.

    That's what's supposed to happen. Consider starting at square one back up there and record exactly what happens and when and report back. That will help us figure out where in the sequence of things something is amiss...


    So basically, i turn the thermostat on and there is no change. The boiler does nothing. If i cut the breaker and turn off the power, then back on, again, no change. I dont hear the boiler start to make steam.
  • ice_mf_mike
    ice_mf_mike Member Posts: 19
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    Danny Scully said:

    The auto fill isn't feeding at all, or not enough?

    The LWCO never turns on(if you look at the pictures, the light on that should turn red when it detects LWCO, but that test cant work because its not on in the first place to shutoff). Therefore, it doesnt tell the auto fill to feed water into it as it normally would. But the steam heat never is on to even allow the LWCO to function.
  • Danny Scully
    Danny Scully Member Posts: 1,424
    edited March 2017
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    The boiler doesn't have to be running to allow the LWCO to function. The power does however. Where are you located?
  • ice_mf_mike
    ice_mf_mike Member Posts: 19
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    Danny Scully said:

    The boiler doesn't have to be running to allow the LWCO to function. The power does however. Where are you located?

    Well whatever the case the LWCO isnt functioning. But the unit isnt on to turn off. Usually i can hear the thing running. Maybe i should try that test feature on the box? Any idea how that works?

    Im in the northeast. its not crazy cold here right now and i have ductless units that give heat. So it does give me some time to investigate.
  • Danny Scully
    Danny Scully Member Posts: 1,424
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    The test feature just interrupts power to the burner while it's running. It wont solve this issue. It seems like you may not have power at the burner. When you push the manual feed button on the auto feed, does it work?
  • ice_mf_mike
    ice_mf_mike Member Posts: 19
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    Danny Scully said:

    The test feature just interrupts power to the burner while it's running. It wont solve this issue. It seems like you may not have power at the burner. When you push the manual feed button on the auto feed, does it work?

    Where do you see a manual feed button? Im not sure if i have that. I will have to look.

    If i try the test button, will that tell me whether or not i have power at the burner, if that is the issue?
  • Danny Scully
    Danny Scully Member Posts: 1,424
    edited March 2017
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    No it will not. The side of the auto-feed that you can't see in the attached picture should have a red button.
  • Fred
    Fred Member Posts: 8,542
    edited March 2017
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    Tap on the side of the Pressuretrol (gray box) I'm guessing the pigtail (looped pipe) under it is clogged and holding pressure between the clog and the Pressuretrol, not allowing it to reach the Cut-in pressure. Just tap the side of it a couple times and see if the boiler kicks on.
    Also, check your circuit breaker or fuse( in the fuse box and make sure the breaker hasn't tripped or the fuse blown.
    JJW101
  • ice_mf_mike
    ice_mf_mike Member Posts: 19
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    Danny Scully said:

    No it will not. The side of the auto-feed that you can't see in the attached picture should have a red button.

    Ok i found the manual feed button. It didnt do anything. Tried holding it and tried tapping it. I did not drain the water below the LWCO point first however. should i have done that?
    Fred said:

    Tap on the side of the Pressuretrol (gray box) I'm guessing the pigtail (looped pipe) under it is clogged and holding pressure between the clog and the Pressuretrol, not allowing it to rach the Cut-in pressure. Just tap the side of it a couple times and see if the boiler kicks on.
    Also, check your circuit breaker or fuse( in the fuse box and make sure the breaker hasn't tripped or the fuse blown.

    So i gave the grey box a few taps. Not sure if it was hard enough(didnt want to break it) but no dice. Nothing has tripped in my breaker box. I have also turned the breaker off and on just to confirm.
  • Danny Scully
    Danny Scully Member Posts: 1,424
    edited March 2017
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    No it doesn't have to be a low water condition. Think we're looking at a power issue. I would suggest a pro at this point. The switch is on at the top of the steps right? :lol:
  • Fred
    Fred Member Posts: 8,542
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    This is a 24 volt system. It is possible the transformer died.
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 11,061
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    It looks like maybe the damper is closed, as mentioned above.
    That is the first action the T-stat would call for, some have a manual operation opening screwdriver slot that would allow you to open it if that motor failed. If no such labeling of "manual operation" then don't mess with it.

    You have another heat source, so you can call someone tomorrow. I would quiz them about knowing about steam heat.
    Many will claim to but few might really know.
  • ice_mf_mike
    ice_mf_mike Member Posts: 19
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    Thanks for all the assistance everyone. Im learning a ton just from this thread. if anyone has any other tips tricks please let me know. Otherwise i will give someone a call tomorrow.
    JUGHNE said:



    You have another heat source, so you can call someone tomorrow. I would quiz them about knowing about steam heat.
    Many will claim to but few might really know.

    What types of questions should i quiz them on? The company i am calling is the company that came before winter and took the thing apart and cleaned it out so im assuming they know what they are doing. But, you know what they say about assuming.....
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 23,289
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    Where, exactly, in the northeast? We know of some men in that general area who are really top notch. If you can give us a more exact location, we can point you in the right direction.

    You are not, for some reason, getting power to anything. Takes a bit of tracing to find sometimes.
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
  • ice_mf_mike
    ice_mf_mike Member Posts: 19
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    I'm in North NJ. Any recommendations would be appreciated.
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 23,289
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    I think @EzzyT or @Dave0176 both serve that area, very well indeed. Give either of them a shout.
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
  • EzzyT
    EzzyT Member Posts: 1,295
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    @ice_mf_mike private message me
    E-Travis Mechanical LLC
    Etravismechanical@gmail.com
    201-887-8856
  • ice_mf_mike
    ice_mf_mike Member Posts: 19
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    So in case anyone is curious. I was able to get my guy to come by.

    Inside this: http://imgur.com/Cj5Emy3 is a power cable. it was loose. Once he tightened it, everything worked. How it became loose, remains a mystery.

    Thanks for everyone who helped my solve this caper.

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