Burner keeps locking out..tried several things .. what to try next?

bir5150

Hi all, apologies if this is the wrong forum or place to ask this but I am out of ideas and could use some help.

I have a newer Wayne oil burner on my furnace. The whole system was installed November 2015 and have not had issues until this December (2016)

The unit will randomly lock out. I've witnessed it doing it. Essentially the thermo will call for heat, the burner will attempt to run for about 5-10 seconds and then shut off. The primary would indicate "late/no ignition".

I had the guys who would typically do my yearly maintenance out the first time and they thought it had lost prime. They bled it and got it running again. Next day did it again.

Had the guys out again and this time they replaced the nozzle and checked the filter. Days later still happening. At this point I am able to restart the burner with the reset button. Sometimes takes 2 resets (not too keen on that) but it will turn back on - albeit with a little smoke coming off the transformer.

You can see the pattern here. I've had my oil guy out a bunch of times now and we have replaced:

Igniter, primary, nozzle, cad cell. We have checked the filter on the pump- not crudded up. Good news is that the furnace I bought was under warranty so I've not been paying for these parts.. but this is a little silly at this point.

A theory I've heard is that I could have the smallest of air leaks that is calling the lockout but not causing a complete loss of prime - which may be why I can get it to reset on try 1 or 2 without purging. I also believe in this because I have an overhead oil line.

Thinking of trying a tigerloop to rule out air leak but just seems like we are doing a lot of guess
And check here.

Ideas?

Bob Bona_4

Needs more diagnostics. Pump vacuum, pressure. Pump coupling inspection. Burner set up. I will say a Loop is mandatory on any lift job I do.

EBEBRATT-Ed

Here we go again. How many of these oil line issues have we had lately??

Another suction leak! The technicians you have obviously can't find the leak. You have a suction leak, find it and fix it and your problems are over.

Overhead line if it was me I would change it to two pipe or you can try a Tiger loop

Where are the technicians who can flare tubing and get a line tight?

I admit on threaded fittings leaks are more common since Teflon tape has been prohibited

Steamhead

bir5150 said:

Sometimes takes 2 resets (not too keen on that) but it will turn back on - albeit with a little smoke coming off the transformer.

Sounds like the oil is definitely reaching the chamber on the first try. I'd bet this is an ignition problem- one or both of the ignition electrodes may be bad or out of adjustment, or the transformer they installed might be bad out of the box.

rick in Alaska

I agree with Steamhead. But will add; possible bad primary control. It might not be sending power to the ignitor some times, and or could be that it is not reading the cad cell correctly.
Rick

bir5150

Thanks all for the input. Going to pressure and vacuum test it to confirm or rule out the suction leak. My uninformed hypothesis is that as it's trying to ignite it does dump oil in and maybe ignite... but then some air gets sucked in during the process and it shuts down.

My technician believes it is an air adjustment or ignition issue. But after we have replaced the primary, the transformer, the cad cell and the nozzle I feel like the odds it being that are low.

Nevertheless will be pressure testing to confirm.

Jamie Hall

Vacuum test it. Put a good high vacuum on it and hold it -- it must hold. A pressure test may or may not find a vacuum leak (and, I might add, vice versa!).

Think about it on a big scale: suppose you have a pipe with a check valve on the inlet. It's supposed to let water in, but not out. Now -- if you put a pressure test on that, it would pass (you hope). But if you put a vacuum on it? Same thing on a small scale is quite possible in a fitting or flare somewhere.

HVACNUT

What brand and model is the furnace?
What model is the Wayne? The Blue Angel has 2 air adjustments. Wayne is not my favorite by a long shot.
Like others have said, it sounds like the fuel is getting to the chamber, but no or delayed ignition, hence the smoke.

bir5150

Furnace is a Yukon Husky Eagle 1. Burner is a Wayne MSR 231

Paul48

From a troubleshooting standpoint....It's unlikely (not impossible) that the things you have replaced have created the exact same problem you had before. You're getting unburnt fuel, at start up. When you reset the burner, and it fires, are you getting sputtering that would be there from the air accumulated at the top of the loop, if you have a leak? Has anyone monitored the pump pressure on a start up after the unit has sat down for a while? Pressure is needed to properly atomize the fuel. Make a list of things that have been done already, and stick it on the furnace. It's fine to double check someone else's work. It makes no sense, to duplicate it.
You're right....it's a little silly, at this point. If the car won't start, you don't put new tires on it.

HVACNUT

What was wrong Dec . 2016?
Definitely sounds ignition related. It should say on the furnace cabinet the firing rate and pump pressure. New pumps are set at 100 psi out of the box. Does your furnace spec for higher?
Basically you need a reputable tech to check pump pressure, electrode settings, nozzle spray and angle, ignition and a combustion analysis with smoke test.

Patchogue Phil_2

It's possible the electrode rods porcelain has a hairline crack which causes shorting out of the spark.