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old radiator heat safety

inneedofhelp
inneedofhelp Member Posts: 11
Has anyone had experience with old household radiators exploding? What could cause it? My sons apt. just had the top corner break explode off and flood apt. Landlord claims it is his fault due to a cracked window above the unit letting cold air in? Is this even possible? When looking at the crack the metal is corroded over 90% of the surface of the break with only a small portion of the crack with shiny metal. To me this would indicate a long term crack in the unit that finally broke. I was hoping for some expert advice on this.

Comments

  • Gordy
    Gordy Member Posts: 9,546
    Define "exploding". Apparently this is /was a steam radiator? The metal has been fatigued, and cracked for quite sometime.

    So the system is either steam, or water based where the top of the radiator had to have been filled with air, or water would have been leaking out of it.

  • inneedofhelp
    inneedofhelp Member Posts: 11
    From what I know the broken part actually blew off and was found across the room. I don't know about the system. I know there was video of steam in the room and then video of the apt. being flooded with water. No one was actually home at the time, so I don't know that actual part of the exploding, just conveying what I was told
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 11,038
    He mentioned flooding the apartment so my guess is hot water.
  • nicholas bonham-carter
    nicholas bonham-carter Member Posts: 8,576
    It's hard to believe the freeze-broken piece of radiator was flung across the room by this "so called explosion". If that had been the case, and your son injured, the landlord would be playing a different tune.
    It sounds like a badly maintained system, with a little help from the "so called" landlord helping the piece across the room.--NBC
  • Grallert
    Grallert Member Posts: 642
    That's the craziest thing I've heard this morning... and the scariest. There should be no where near enough pressure to do any more than pop that piece of cast onto the floor assuming it was cracked completely. Someone besides the landlord really needs to look at the boiler.
    Miss Hall's School service mechanic, greenhouse manager,teacher and dog walker
  • Gordy
    Gordy Member Posts: 9,546
    edited March 2017
    what floor is the apartment on? Also how many floors are in that building?
  • Gordy
    Gordy Member Posts: 9,546
    edited March 2017
    Being hot water based that radiator should have been leaking constantly with a fatigue crack that's been there a while obviously.

  • inneedofhelp
    inneedofhelp Member Posts: 11
    As far as actual exploding, maybe wrong choice of words there. That's just what was said, so I cant say for sure the broken part flew across the room. There was no evidence of leaking prior to this incident. Again the boys were out of the apt. when this happen so no eye witness to how long it had been. Its a 2 story apt with the radiator on the 2nd floor. The water damage is significant to the bottom floor and into the basement where the boilers are.
  • inneedofhelp
    inneedofhelp Member Posts: 11
    my main question is again are the boys to be help responsible for the incident because of a window cracked open? the break looks like its been a ongoing issue. Is it possible for a crack to have been there for some time that is not seen from the surface and then just gave way? When looking at the radiator it seems that it is likely it just gave out over time of corrosion in the crack?
  • Gordy
    Gordy Member Posts: 9,546
    Was the radiator always on, and working. I just find it hard to believe that it never leaked before. The surface is quite rusty, old rust. Along with the inside of the radiator..
    Grallert
  • Gordy
    Gordy Member Posts: 9,546
    A typical hot water based system should run 15 psi for a two story dwelling. The relief valve at the boiler should be 30psi. Neither enough to cause a piece of cast iron to fly across the room.

    I find it hard to believe that if the radiator was operational that it would not leak water with a crack like that. Or hold a pocket of air in the top part of the radiator with out the air leaking out.

    That's why I ask if the radiator was turned off, or isolated due to its damage because it leaked, and inadvertently turned on.
  • Gordy
    Gordy Member Posts: 9,546
    If the system was running , and a window cracked open it wouldn't freeze a radiator solid to cause that. The amount of rust scale inside the radiator is suspicious to me.
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 23,090
    see my comment on your other thread.
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
  • Leonard
    Leonard Member Posts: 903
    edited March 2017
    Bit odd , would think flooding implies a hot water system, so should have little air in the radiator so little energy to propel the fragment across the room. Steam in room might be fog from hot water.

    Fatigue cracks.....In machinery like a shaft or casting typically you see a fresh crack , with other areas of old crack. In the old crack area the sections are smeared by the cumulative old relative motion of each face rubbing on the other face and "dulling" the sharp face of the crack.

    Here in crack cross section I'ld expect older sections of crack to have more rust, than areas closer to the new and likely unrusted last surface of crack

    Radiators are heavy , and the crack is on a corner. Since cast iron radiators are heavy I'ld wonder if it was dropped before it was installed. And many years ago that created a initial crack that was not a thru crack. Then rusting over time forced the crack open and allowed it to propagate thru the wall thickness of the metal.

    Exstreamly large thermal shear stresses from a high temperature difference between inner and outer walls of pipe/radiator/etc can cause cracks but I haven't heard of them in radiators. Besides I'ld expect such a crack to start from the cold surface ( outside of the radiator), not the hot inner surface. But starting on outside it likley would look like a fatigue crack , no rust since no water.

    Landlord's insurance should take care of it, and pay for liability damages to tenant's belongings.

    Tenants.....Good luck getting them to pay. In court a landlord would have to PROVE tenant did something that caused the failure and that it was not possible that landlord did something wrong to cause the failure.

    I'm not in the heating business but I have not heard of radiators failing from being placed in cold air draft. So I'ld argrue if landlord thought that then he should have given tenants written instuctions (warning) to not do so.

    IF you buy the idea that an open window would cause a crack then you can argue that radiator should not have been placed under a window, ( improper location, landlord's problem)