Recommendations on indirect hot water heater

BrianH

Looking for Brand recommendations on adding a 50gal indirect hot water heater to an existing Peerless cast iron boiler. Not trying to break the bank, something decent that will last, I would say mid/high end.
Thank you

Zman

What part of the country are you in?
Any water quality issues that have damaged previous units?

BrianH

New England. No issues with water quality. Just been using the tankless off the boiler and added a second bathroom so more hot water demand now.

hot_rod

3 main choices, stainless, glass lined steel, or reverse indirects with carbon steel tank and copper coil HX inside.

Over the years I have had less failures with glass lined steel, as long as they are operated below 180° temperatures.

Many installers swear by the reverse type indirects, look at them also. www.thermal2000.com

If you go with stainless, be sure to check chloride levels of your water. Warranty is void day one if you have levels beyond the manufacturers range.

Local suppliers would have a good idea of what types and brands have the best track record in your area.

Edit:
Stone lined tanks are another good option. They have a long history of dependability. Some of there larger DHW storage vessels in commercial applications are cement or stone lined.

gschallert

This is what I had installed about 6 mos ago:

http://www.bradfordwhite.com/sites/default/files/product_literature/residential_indirect_powerstor_series_ss_stainless_steel_rtv_specsheet_556.pdf

Based on the price I paid, I'd say it's high end but I wanted a tank I would not have to replace before we downsize to the old folks home. From the research I did it's more of commercial/industrial application grade SS (444) which is why I went with it for longevity. I briefly looked at the Lochinvar SIT but decided that if I was going SS it was better to go 444 over 316. If you just want mid-range indirect stick with glass lined & anode rod models, they are pretty much all the same. Whatever make/model you pick, if it has a limited lifetime warranty on the tank look over the water quality requirements in the warranty and verify your install conforms.

BrianH

How would I check chloride levels in the water?

hot_rod

BrianH said:

How would I check chloride levels in the water?

Are you on a public water system? If so ask for a report, they are required to sample and test occasionally. There doesn't seem to be a standard for acceptable levels of chlorides in drinking water, so it may not be tested for.

An inexpensive TDS meter will show elevated dissolved solids levels, but not specifically chlorides. Some tank manufacturers show TDS numbers acceptable, by the way.

A good quality chloride test meter is $$, it may be better to take a sample to a water analysts.

All the hydronic chemical manufacturers offer water testing, local universities and Ag extension offices usually do also.

Some good data from NH.

http://www.des.nh.gov/organization/commissioner/pip/factsheets/dwgb/documents/dwgb-3-17.pdf

flat_twin

I'm in the same decision making process right now. Stainless or glass lined or stone lined.
I had my water tested and it is within the 80 ppm spec for chlorides but it also has a small amount of chlorine. Some stainless indirect warranties say any amount of chlorine is a no no.
The fact that we have a good history with glass lined water tanks is making me think that's the way I ought to go. Our electric water heater is 23 years old (Rheem) and isn't leaking but it's age is making me nervous plus we now have a modcon boiler and an indirect water heater just makes a lot of sense.

Stainless tanks seem to be a real crapshoot depending on your water quality. I've read accounts about stainless tanks that failed early. Some as early as four or five years. The welds seem to be the weak spot more than the tank material itself. Most of those accounts also mentioned city water, hard well water or a water softener that may not be operating correctly as possible causes.

hot_rod

There are so many variables with water. Public water providers are turning to chloramines to replace chlorine. I'm not sure how that blend effects the various grades of stainless, or other tank or lining materials.

The control of chemicals injected, temperatures, amount of water you use, storage temperature, additional filtration or softening at the site all play a part in the tank life expectancy.

A brand with a good track record in your area and dealer or factory supports a good start. Some installers and manufacturers offer additional, longer warranties, if that helps.

BrianH

Lochinvar Squire SIT050 was recommended from local supply house. Seems like a decent unit, might go that route

flat_twin

gschallert, Does your Bradford White RTV have an anode rod? I don't see it mentioned in the brochure.

kcopp

The Brad/White Stainless steel unit does not have an anode. The Glass lined version has 3(three) anode rods. Hence the reason they give it a lifetime warranty....to the original owner.
Its not a light unit.

http://www.bradfordwhite.com/sites/default/files/product_literature/554-B.pdf

gschallert

flat_twin said:

gschallert, Does your Bradford White RTV have an anode rod? I don't see it mentioned in the brochure.

No it does not, which is why I looked at SS in the first place when it was time to replace my fired tank. I have well water that is softened and was heartily sick of the rotten egg odor whenever we drew hot water and the only fix was a powered anode rod. The grade of SS used in the Bradford White is unique in it's ability to hold up to water quality issues. See my comment here for details: http://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1428934/#Comment_1428934

ETA: 444 alloy info: https://www.ulbrich.com/444-stainless-steel/

@kcopp, the Bradford White SS has the same limited lifetime warranty as the glass lined tank.

flat_twin

Thank you. The Velocity (crown) Megastor 2 uses 444 stainless also. I haven't seen any first hand reviews of that tank but I spotted some Facebook photos of recent indirect installations that used the Megastor 2. Velocity also said water that contained any chlorine compounds would void the warranty. They don't use anode rods either.

BrianH

Looks like my boiler does 126,000btu's. Looking at the specs on the Lochnivar SIT 50 it states "min coil load = 133,000"
Question is my boiler not able to handle this?

kcopp

your boiler will be fine. The output may be slightly reduced.... you wont even know the difference.

Cokomo

Every time indirects are mentioned, water quality is discussed, especially the corrosive effects of chlorides and chlorine. What is the fix for this? Is it a whole house filter or a filter placed just before the indirect? Is there a preferred system or brand reccommended by professionals which protects the indirect?

Harvey Ramer

I like installing a tank with carbon media after the water softener, to scrub the chlorine back out of the water.

hot_rod

Chlorides are negatively charged ions, they cannot be removed with a water softener or carbon filters. They can be removed by RO, distilling or demineralizing the water.

For boiler side water DM or DI is a single pass through a special resin bed, simple, fast and cost effective. Deionizing used a duel resin bed, both positive and negative charged resin beads.

Water softeners use a single charge resin bead, so they can be backwashed with a brine, but they only remove some of the undesired ions, and leave the water with a higher sodium and TDS.
We sell various sizes of DI units, but they are not for potable water.

With DI or DM, same thing really, once the resin bed is loaded it needs to be replaced. The resin can be cleaned at special facilities that have the chemicals and training to do that, usually large quantities are required to make cleaning cost effective.

RO requires a 2 or 3 gallon waste for each gallon produced. Distilling involves boiling and collecting the steam condensate, again energy intensive and slow.

Here is some good info on chlorides.