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Nothing to do with heating, but

Harvey Ramer
Harvey Ramer Member Posts: 2,217
here's what's happening on quite a few of the local dairy farms.

http://go.socialnewsdesk.com/r?p=18546289&pg=a0205914-75eb-4fa7-901c-103553bf7e78&sn=2032

Comments

  • Solid_Fuel_Man
    Solid_Fuel_Man Member Posts: 2,304
    Now that's not the kind of"solid fuel" I work with! :mask:
    Serving Northern Maine HVAC & Controls. I burn wood, it smells good!
  • BobC
    BobC Member Posts: 5,228
    In Korea I had locals outbidding each other to clean out the site outhouse (deluxe two holer). The locals collected the night soil to fertilize the fields with. If I had to go into the HQ in the summer it was a joy to be driving the jeep behind a honey bucket, it was 26 miles from the site to HQ.

    When you first got off the plane at Kimpo there was "something in the air" as the song goes. IF you weren't careful you'd get a bit of Montezuma's revenge from local food or untreated water. After you were in country for a few days you got accustomed to it and things settled down. I used to buy vegetables and fruit from local markets for site personnel (we got the meat from the mess).

    I enjoyed my 13 months over there, it's a pretty country with kind hardworking people. My only other "foreign" adventures were in NJ and Georgia.

    Bob
    Smith G8-3 with EZ Gas @ 90,000 BTU, Single pipe steam
    Vaporstat with a 12oz cut-out and 4oz cut-in
    3PSI gauge
    RomanGK_26986764589JUGHNE
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 17,025
    Methane producing digesters -- in various forms -- are actually more common than realised. At least three of the sewage treatment plants I operated in by gone years had them. One of them used the gas as part of the fuel for an on-site gas engine generator. The other two it was burned and used to heat the digester.

    You really don't want to have one blow up, though... and it has happened.
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 8,927
    The Indian ones had the advantage of the local climate, seldom freezing. So some of the gas was not needed for added heat to continue the process. I would hope by now they are a little more advanced. But then locating manure in a country that is predominately vegan might be somewhat of a challenge.

    Unfortunately India is surpassing China in air pollution. I thought it was bad in the city 40 years ago but there was an estimate that 1 million a year would die from air pollution.
    Nephew who frequents there suffers badly from the air and longs for the clean air of the Twin Cities.
  • Solid_Fuel_Man
    Solid_Fuel_Man Member Posts: 2,304
    I service a local land fill which burns the methane in a flare. It has been looked into many times to not just waste the gas (and a considerable amount of propane as pilot fuel) but to use it for heat/something useful.

    The amount produced at our local has not been enough. When vegetable processing was in its heyday a nearby town built a sewer plantern to handle processing waste and had a large EPDM covered digester to contain the methane. But the facility is gone now and the aged treatment plant is underutilized.

    There is a national French fry plant which digests 100% of their own waste and runs a co-gen plans on-site. I have never had the privilege of seeing that.

    Turning trash to useful energy has always been a passion of mine. Just as playing with fire and water at the same time!
    Serving Northern Maine HVAC & Controls. I burn wood, it smells good!
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 8,927
    edited February 2017
    Back then you could go to as far as Nepal overland from Greece.
    That is what I did for 18 months. Along the way I always had this thought that if you could get the USA refuse/trash/garbage to most of those countries before it started to smell, it would raise their standard of living considerably. Sounds crude but at that time we threw out so much and they made do with so little. It was pretty ingenious what they could with throw away materials.

    Solid fuel man you just need to develop a way to burn tires...cleanly.
    Solid_Fuel_Man
  • BillW
    BillW Member Posts: 198
    One problem with the methane from landfills is that it is heavily contaminated with hydrogen sulfide, which is very corrosive, and destroys metal components in a very short time. To my knowledge, no one has ever figured out an economical way to remove it.
  • Solid_Fuel_Man
    Solid_Fuel_Man Member Posts: 2,304
    edited February 2017


    Interesting...but scary 70psi steam.
    Serving Northern Maine HVAC & Controls. I burn wood, it smells good!
  • Harvey Ramer
    Harvey Ramer Member Posts: 2,217
    I watched the video through and he had it up to 125 psi of steam. Sure hope he pressure tested his boiler at well above that before he started playing with it.

    I have this wild idea about building a manure powered generation plant.
    Knowing that the raw methane is extremely corrosive, as was mentioned above, I would opt to use a high pressure steam boiler instead of a combustion engine. The boiler would provide power for a steam turbine which would produce electricity. The steam discharge from the turbine would be channeled into a grid of steel pipes embedded in the manure pit. This would act as a condenser and also heat up the manure, increasing the methane output. To my knowledge, pretty much every chemical reaction doubles in speed with every 18 degree temp increase. The condensate would then be collected in a receiver and pumped back in the boiler.
    rick in AlaskaSolid_Fuel_Man
  • Solid_Fuel_Man
    Solid_Fuel_Man Member Posts: 2,304
    Yeah, I had watched that video about a year ago. Didn't watch it all the way through before I posted it here. High pressure water/steam scares me to death! I was at a hospital doing control work on a chip boiler. They operated it to 70psi. Used for heating, but high pressure for clothes drying and disinfection.

    Manure to power is a great idea. I'd almost be willing to relocate to be in on that. I envision lots of stainless piping, and lots of controls to play with.
    Serving Northern Maine HVAC & Controls. I burn wood, it smells good!
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 8,927
    Swinging a pipe down on its 90 to look at the 125PSI reading on the gauge would make me a little nervous.
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 17,025
    BillW said:

    One problem with the methane from landfills is that it is heavily contaminated with hydrogen sulfide, which is very corrosive, and destroys metal components in a very short time. To my knowledge, no one has ever figured out an economical way to remove it.

    Hydrogen Sulphide is not only very corrosive -- it's very toxic, and the worst of it is that while it smells horrible (rotten eggs) in low concentration, it disables the sense of smell in only slightly higher concentrations -- so you don't know you're dying until you're dead. Great stuff. And no, I don't know of any good way to get rid of it. And it is a real problem in generating power or heat from landfill gas (or anaerobic sewage/manure digestion) because of that.
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
    Canucker
  • BillW
    BillW Member Posts: 198
    Absolutely, Jamie! H2S is as deadly as CO. It lurks in storm sewers, confined spaces holding any kind of organic debris as well as sanitary sewers. On the subject of using methane for fuels, I have seen sewage digester-generated methane used to power big Nordberg radial diesel pumps that sent the treated effluent into New York Harbor.