Big Mouth update

Sailah

I've recently become aware that some of our Big Mouth vents haven't been sealing well. Overall the number is small but anything more than our best work isn't acceptable.

As a manufacturer that relies on parts I don't make myself for these, it's a frustrating experience. And for you as well.

As a result I've become much more critical of the discs that we have been getting. The disc is what does all the work. The issue I believe is traced back to the discs having an inconsistent fill amount. The most recent batch I received I rejected close to 70% out of caution. Of that rejected amount, maybe 25% had no fill whatsoever. Those are the discs I believe to be the issue. Even a slight amount of fill is enough to seal them closed.

Since we test all of our regular traps at 6 PSIG on our rack I think that was masking the underperforming discs. So while they would seal up tight for me at 6 PSIG, they might not close all the way, or have enough oomph, at 3 ozs. I'm setting up a separate test station with a PRV to regulate the test pressure down to 3-6 ozs to allow me to test each one at the same pressure that many of you are running.

The manufacturer of the discs is aware of the issue and I'm confident going forward that they will rectify the deficiency and start implementing better quality control of what they ship to me.

If your vent seals tight, you got a good one. If your vent is not sealing tight, please contact me directly. I have a bunch of good discs here that I can send out and that should fix it.

Apologize for having to admit we may have sent out some parts that did not meet our high standards and appreciate your understanding.

Peter @ Barnes & Jones

781-963-8000 x214

ChrisJ

Everyone makes mistakes, especially when trying to make a product that will sell with a profit.

It takes a big person to admit they made a mistake, and a much more so coming from any manufacturer..

I'm impressed.

BobC

Having worked in manufacturing for most of my life I have learned out of tolerance parts will bite you in the **** every time. The important thing is you caught it and have taken steps to make sure that particular problem goes away.

Bob

Koan

Peter, thank you for being an outstanding example of taking responsibility for your product. I agree with @ChrisJ, your approach to this is exemplary!

Fred

Thanks for the "Heads up" @Sailah . Mine work perfectly but it's good to know you are on top of the quality/reliability of your products! Makes me want to buy more (if I had a place to put them)

Sailah

Thanks Fred and everyone else.

I believe the vast majority of the vents are fine. But I know there have been instances where a select few have had problems. I had been taking care of them when they came up but I wanted to get out in front of it so anyone who hadn't contacted me yet with a troubled vent would feel welcome to do so.

Reinvent

What do you mean by "the discs having an inconsistent fill amount"?
Could you show us a pic of a good disc and a bad disc?

STEAM DOCTOR

@Sailah. Getting ready to order a new batch. Can we assume that new batch is from the new order? Thanks. Btw, hats off to your integrity and honesty

ChrisJ

Reinvent said:

What do you mean by "the discs having an inconsistent fill amount"?
Could you show us a pic of a good disc and a bad disc?

The fill amount is liquid inside the disc.
I doubt you could tell by looking at it.

zackwatt

@Sailah

Thanks for the update Peter! I really appreciate the integrity and honesty!

Mine have been working very well, it probably takes a maximum of 5 seconds for them to seal up once steam gets to them.

Sailah

Reinvent said:

What do you mean by "the discs having an inconsistent fill amount"?
Could you show us a pic of a good disc and a bad disc?

The discs have a small amount of alcohol and distilled water inside, the fill.

The vents that were slow to close or leaked a little, I believe had no fill or a small amount. I've verified this was an issue with testing.

All new vents I personally test and verify the fill amount before I even test them. I think this should eliminate almost all issues.

The discs are indistinguishable from the outside. If you shake the disc, you can hear the fill sloshing around. Not very scientific I know but it's easy to test the difference when you shake two hundred lol.

STEAM DOCTOR said:

@Sailah. Getting ready to order a new batch. Can we assume that new batch is from the new order? Thanks. Btw, hats off to your integrity and honesty

Yes all new vents that hit Amazon shortly plus all the vents I have at factory are the "new batch". But the vents out in the field that work are fine. It's the few that didn't that I want to get fixed.

zackwatt said:

@Sailah

Thanks for the update Peter! I really appreciate the integrity and honesty!

Mine have been working very well, it probably takes a maximum of 5 seconds for them to seal up once steam gets to them.

Thanks Zack, that's what I like to hear!

BobC

Thank you for all you do on our behalf.

Bob

Motorapido

After steam reaches the antler, about how many seconds should pass until they are making no steam hiss noise or passing any tiny amounts of steam that you can feel on your wrist? When steam hits my antler, I am at somewhere between 3 and 4 ounces of pressure. There have been a few instances where mine appeared to seal but then made a little noise for a bit afterward. Interestingly, I have a Gorton #1 that behaves similarly, to the extent that sometimes, to get it to stop making a very tiny hiss, I have to tap the exterior with a screw driver shaft.

Fred

Motorapido said:

After steam reaches the antler, about how many seconds should pass until they are making no steam hiss noise or passing any tiny amounts of steam that you can feel on your wrist? When steam hits my antler, I am at somewhere between 3 and 4 ounces of pressure. There have been a few instances where mine appeared to seal but then made a little noise for a bit afterward. Interestingly, I have a Gorton #1 that behaves similarly, to the extent that sometimes, to get it to stop making a very tiny hiss, I have to tap the exterior with a screw driver shaft.

It should be immediate. Is the antler pitched so that it doesn't hold water?

Motorapido

Yes, antler rises up above the main pipe about 7 inches vertically, and then the horizontal pipe is pitched enough that a bubble level bubble goes very far off level, which would allow rapid drain-back of any condensed steam. I have not measured the degrees of the horizontal pipe on the antler, but instead have just used the bubble level to confirm that it has a strong slope back to the 90 degree elbow.

Fred

3 or 4 ounces of pressure by the time steam hits that antler seems high to me. How long has the boiler been running by the time steam gets to the antler? Do you have enough venting on your mains? Is this a one pipe or two pipe system? Are you 100% sure that steam has actually hit that antler? I wouldn't think you could hold your wrist up there and let it get hit by actual steam. Maybe still venting the last bit of air?

RomanGK_26986764589

I agree with Fred 3-4 ounces does seem high. When steam hits my antler I have about 1 ounce of pressure, maybe a bit less, hard to say. 0-3 psi gauge is basically fluttering at 0. Maybe it is escaping air that's hissing?

Sailah

The vents don't use pressure to close, just steam temp. Pressure is irrelevant. There is a chance you have a bad disc if you have an "original" I've been trying to get those repaired with new discs.

If you are at steam temps and water isn't present give me a ring next week and I'll send you out a new disc.

Motorapido

I assess when steam has hit the antler by holding the 3/4 inch diameter, six-inch high pipe that rises to the horizontal antler. Between steam cycles, when the boiler has not run for 45 to 70 minutes or so, the antler feed pipe feels warmer than room temperature. After the boiler fires, it takes about 5 minutes for steam to hit that antler pipe, and when it does, within a second or two, I can no longer keep my fingers gripped to the pipe without inventing new curses. I am probably wrong about the 3 ounce pressure estimate, since I have not had a helper standing at the boiler reading the gauge. I have tended to move over to the other antler, on the other main, which takes longer to get steam, wait for steam there, and then meander back to the boiler to read the gauge. I should talk The Great Governor (my wife) into serving as my assistant to read the gauge as I wait for steam to hit the antler, so I know for sure. This is one-pipe, parallel. Fully insulated. All pipe sag eliminated. No water hammer. Balanced radiators. Pressuretrol set at 0.5 and 1.
My method for feeling air leaving my main vents is to hold my wrist near the mouth of the Big Mouths. Early on, I feel cool air leaving the Big Mouths at a very low velocity, in modulated puffs. Near the time that the steam reaches the antler, I can feel the velocity of air leaving the Big Mouth increasing and becoming more consistent. It becomes gradually warmer. When steam hits the antler, the air exiting the Big Mouth is hot. When it hisses a little more over the next few minutes, it is VERY hot air/steam exiting the Big Mouth, in very small volume.

Sailah

If it's leaking steam, you'd probably be able to see it. The difference between the vent being open or closed is typically about 15 degrees subcooling.

Do you have an infrared thermometer? They are dirt cheap on Amazon and useful for all sorts of things. Check the threads on the tailpiece of the vent threaded into your antler. That is far more accurate than your hand.

Motorapido

Yep, I do have an infrared thermometer. I will use it to measure the vent tailpiece threads. I assume that when the threads reach 212, that means the vent should be sealed, right?

Sailah

Well you probably won't see 212 but maybe 209ish due to heat soak. So if you are seeing temps like that, and it's leaking, call me and we'll square you away. A video showing the leaking would be helpful as well.

Koan

@Sailah - were these disk issues only on the 3BM vents?

Sailah

No they may very well have been present in the older crossover traps as well. There are far more vents than crossover traps.