Can I remove some fins from this radiator?

Aberagejoemn

Hi, I promise I did a search but I couldn't find anything that told me if I can take this radiator apart (although a lot of results for APARTMENTS came up). This rad is HUGE, it's oversized for the space OR with new insulation it's now oversized. I'd like to either remove some fins or replace it with another smaller radiator. This is obviously a one pipe system.





Thanks!

Fred

Usually radiators that can be taken apart have rods running through them that hold all the sections together. If the space isn't the issue, you can get the same result you want (reduced heat output) by either putting a smaller vent on it (probably an adjustable vent that you can adjust down) so that less air is pushed out of the radiator during a heat cycle or Option #2, which costs a little more is to put a TRV on the radiator, then the vent mounts to the TRV. The TRV has a built in thermostat and only opens to allow air out of the radiator when the room temp is lower than you have set the TRV. DanFos makes a good one. It requires three components, the TRV body, the control unit and the Vacuum breaker. A forth component, a straight vent, if you don't have one.
Supplyhouse.com sells these components for the TRV.
Here is a link to a good adjustable vent:
http://www.hvacrsupplynow.com/VENT-RITE-1-STEAM-AIR-VALVES-ADJUSTABLE_p_1787.html

BobC

That looks like it's assembled with push nipples, you would have to take it apart and then send a nipple away to get new push nipples to put it back together. I would find another radiator, the chances of getting that one apart and reassembled is not good.

Bob

LionA29

TRV is a good idea like @Fred mentioned!

EBEBRATT-Ed

I agree. A TRV is a lot lighter too!!

Aberagejoemn

Thanks all, I did try a TRV prior to upgrading the insulation without any luck. Since air vents are fairly cheap what is the slowest vent I can put on this minivan sized radiator? Any recommendations?

I should also note, I have another radiator that is much smaller that was removed from the kitchen that I wanted to plug into this supply HOWEVER the supply connection is higher than the supply valve. I've debated cutting the feet down from the radiator but the wife is concerned about aesthetics...

Fred

About the smallest vent is a Hoffman #40. Also, keep in mind, if you find a smaller radiator or switch between your kitchen and this room, you also need to take the supply valves off and move them with their respective radiators. The valve and spud (in the radiator) are a matched set and if you connect different valves and spuds, there is a 90+% chance that union will leak.

LionA29

@Aberagejoemn the TRV's have adjustments which need to adjust with patience, not that I'm saying you did not attempt. Don't get me wrong but they are usually on point when reach the correct dial. Can you tell us what model and set up you used?
Or if that rad is really a PITA and you want it to go, then there is no reason to rectify it.

KC_Jones

Which TRV did you try? And just to be clear the TRV for one pipe steam goes on the vent. I've yet to hear of anyone saying they don't work. The only issue I've ever seen is using certain brands that require a vacuum breaker, but people forget to buy and install the vacuum breaker. In that case when the TRV closes it creates vacuum which sucks more steam in instead of stopping it.

Also they work best at low pressure, what pressure is your system running? Too high of pressure can overwhelm them to a point.

Paul48

Without knowing the details of how his system is controlled, it's possible that trv's might not work for him.
http://www.fiainc.com/sites/default/files/Can You Really Control a One-Pipe Steam System.pdf

Gordo

@Aberagejoemn : It looks like that particular radiator you have pictured has internal left hand/right hand nipples (no push nipples and external rods), so it is very difficult, bordering on next to impossible, to remove a section.

Brewbeer

You could put a decorative enclosure around it to reduce it's output.

Neild5

Or cover it with a heavy blanket. There is one unit in our condo building that makes this look small, it has 38 sections. Since we covered it with a quilted blanket the tenants have not had to open a window to regulate the temperature.

Aberagejoemn

Sorrry for the delay, I'll try to answer some questions. First, here's the TRV I used years ago which didn't seem to help at all:


Second, what else can I tell you about the system? It's a single pipe steam system with an oversized Burnam boiler in the basement. I still want to cut the legs down on the smaller boiler and connect it but my wife is pushing back. Thanks for your help!

KC_Jones

What brand TRV is that?

Aberagejoemn

I want to say Honeywell but I can't locate it right now.

jumper

Are thin column radiators like this one commonly used with one pipe?

KC_Jones

If it's a Honeywell did you buy the vacuum breaker to go with it? It's a separate item that needs to be ordered to go with it. As stated before without that it won't work correctly. The Danfoss come with a vacuum breaker built in, one reason I went with them instead of Honeywell.

KC_Jones

From the Honeywell instructions for their TRV.
Ensure vacuum breakers are installed on the steam system risers. If vacuum breakers (that open to the atmosphere at zero psig) are not installed, the system can develop a negative pressure and pull steam back into the radiators on resumption of steam.

LionA29

@Aberagejoemn
http://www.steamdepot.com/OPSK.html?id=BxwLvfIy

AMservices

You can cut down the BTU'S with a cabinet around the radiator
https://heatinghelp.com/heating-museum/radiator-enclosures/

LionA29

DanfossTRV Picture for reference.
Straight valve is recommended also.

jumper

With an enclosure,or even just a shelf, you may not need a TRV. Some convectors had louvers/dampers and eventually building got balanced. More or less. Procedure was to begin with all dampers closed;then as tenants complained they were opened.Eventually tenants stopped complaining and building was deemed balanced.

Neild5

> @Gordo said:
> @Aberagejoemn : It looks like that particular radiator you have pictured has internal left hand/right hand nipples (no push nipples and external rods), so it is very difficult, bordering on next to impossible, to remove a section.

Just a little harder than next to impossible, since it requires a special tool similar to but not the same as a spud wrench.. You may want to see if there is a good used radiator shop in your area and see if he'll do a trade.

Aberagejoemn

LionA29 said:

DanfossTRV Picture for reference.

Straight valve is recommended also.

Hi Lion, you've sent links to two TRVs. I looked at the Macon Controls you linked to and the product page says "* 4. The VB-18 vacuum breaker is recommended and assists in the return of condensate. Integral installation reduces vacuum problems." So... is that included or do I need to buy that separate? Alternatively, do you have a link to the Danfoss you recommended? Either way I'd like to try another TRV as a cheaper alternative just not sure exactly what to order....

LionA29

@Aberagejoemn
1) 013G0140 - Danfoss Thermostatic Rad Valve / vac breaker
http://s3.supplyhouse.com/images/products/zoom/013g0140-3.jpg

2) 013L8011 - Danfoss 1 pipe steam air vent
3)013G8252- Remote sensor

Option #2 varies on the size of valve you may want to use. You should try a slow venting valve

Aberagejoemn

Ordered! AND I used the superbowl promo for a discount - now I feel like a winner. Thanks!

LionA29

Please post pics of your setup and results

Aberagejoemn

Ok here we go, I just fired the boiler up and I have a small drop at the supply valve, I'll add some teflon to the threads once the cycle completes and the rad cools. I set the TRV to 4 and mounted the remote sensor to the wall (1 foot to the right and 3.5 feet from the floor).

Aberagejoemn