Boiler temp too high? Causing loud banging?

JUGHNE

How about a picture of where the vent comes thru the roof?
That venting assembly is not very long and we need to see how far above the roof it sticking.

Also, separate item; the yellow line laying on the floor the gas line for the clothes dryer? That is called CSST and should not be used for a movable appliance connector. It is quite fragile and not designed to be repeatedly flexed as when you might move the dryer. There are appliance connectors that are more durable for that application. Your boiler tech might be able to change that.

nikibooks

Jug, thank you. Yes, it has to move when I move the dryer. Ok, it's on the list.

nikibooks

Zman and JUG, here are the photos, I hope. Many thanks for your continued help.
Such a weird mystery -- loud infrequent bangs. One day 3 in 10 minutes. Other times no evidence at all.

rick in Alaska

What the heck is on top of the vent?? Looks like it has a bag covering it up. It looks like an attempt at a filter. I would have someone get up there and find out what that is, and get it off.
Rick

JUGHNE

That looks pretty restrictive and then it might rain and the needles would cling even more.

Question for the Wallies: has anyone ever added a length of pipe to a concentric like this and then a double 90 ell to point down and avoid the needle collection?? It looks like a short straight shot from boiler to daylight. Just need some height on the extension to avoid rebreathing into the intake.

nikibooks

Hi Rick.
It's metal screening to reduce tree debris falling inside. Bad thing?

nikibooks

Yes, short straight shot to daylight. No attic.

I made sure the piece of screen was dome-shaped to shed needles, not flat to collect them. I inspect it frequently. It would be better if it wasn't rusty metal screen. What I also have to do is repair the caulk or get a proper flashing when the roof is replaced (re: inside ceiling leak evidence).

(Wha.. Replacing the roof? Well, Dec. 14, 2016 there was an ice storm that did massive damage to my town. Clean up is still going on. Fir branches punctured the roof at the other end of the house from the boiler. All the tree people and roofers are booked for months. But I have a contract so it will happen sometime. It's a membrane roof.)

JUGHNE

By membrane roof do you mean "rubber" or EDPM type? If so they are able to wrap and seal that pretty good when replacing the roof.

Looking inside your boiler at the white knob air bleed.
That is used usually for initial filling to bleed air out thru the boiler. It is obviously not automatic venting. If you have to bleed air out of it often then you have no auto air vent or it is not working well.
There could be some air scoop hiding behind some piping on the right side of the blower.

nikibooks

Interesting. I have never had to bleed air out of it. When I tilt the lever, if I ever do, no air escapes. Plus I was led to believe that mounting air bubble there would push the lever up itself. True or not? Could the lever lifting be the explosive bang?

nikibooks

The cup-shaped brass thing, open to the air, right above the drain through the floor--in Feb 26 photo yesterday: Is it in an acceptable place being below the boiler?

nikibooks

Lever lifting to allow air bubble would sound like a Hisss, no? Why a slamming BOOM?

JUGHNE

The lever is on the pressure relief valve, it opens at 30 PSI of pressure and that is more than you want in your system.
I have had heard PRV chatter and this would create a hammering sound in piping. There usually would be no air at that point except for start up. If a system is full of water with 12 to 20 PSI on the gauge and the lever is lifted and allowed to snap back shut you may hear a sharp thud......is that a familiar sound?

Your manual air vent inside the boiler jacket should show water if you open it.......carefully as it is looking you in the eyes.

nikibooks

I don't really need to open this, do I? I lifted lever and DID hear water flow over and down. Water flow sound is very apparent today, unlike yesterday. (Bygones?)

JUGHNE

As you flow water out of PRV, your water fill valve (another device) should add water to the system so you show some pressure on the gauge, 12 to 18 PSI.

Zman

I am also suspect on the dome. I have never seen a manufactured approved vent restricted tighter that 1/4" mesh.
I suspect that you burped some air out of the boiler by cycling the relief valve. You may well have solved the noise issue.
You really should have a means of automatic air removal.

nikibooks

Back to house and finding leaks! The result of my lifting that relief lever several times?? Just poor luck continuing?

Drips are falling from the fitting at the blue dot in the following photo. They weren't there for the past months. Cardboard box happened to be under there and wasn't wet before.



Midnight here. Must rest. I put a jar inside to catch and measure. See next photo. I'll login tomorrow when I can.

nikibooks

This just gets worse. Here's the pressure gauge after lifting the lever to hear the water flow.


Seems to be 35 psi.
I don't know if anyone is in my time zone to talk to me, so I have killed the gas boiler emergency switch and the boiler is off. The house won't get too cold tonight.

JUGHNE

Testing the relief valve should make your auto water fill add more water. There are several suspects to raise the pressure that high. If that is truly 35PSI the PRV should be opening and dumping excess water/pressure.
The list includes: expansion tank--PRV--fill valve--and air elimination device.

Shut off gas, electric and water supply.........you need boots on the ground......get someone who knows hot water heat.
Th

JUGHNE

Can you see where the PRV drains to? A floor drain inside the house or thru the wall to the outside? Have you found the water supply valve and gas valve?

nikibooks

Jug asked, Can you see where the PRV drains to?
Yes, Through the floor, right angle ell a bit away from the house, and out on the ground. The drips fall through the air. The house is on a steep hill and this is 6 or 8 feet above the ground (dirt).

As luck would have it, I found the business the installer now works for. But as luck would continue, he is away till tomorrow. They are sending over another guy today.

JUGHNE

I'm guessing that your condensate neutralizer uses that drain line also. That is the 2" diameter pipe about 12 to 16" long with a small tube connected to each end, lying almost on the floor under the boiler. That unit will dribble out water when the boiler is running and if exposed to freezing could eventually freeze the outside pipe shut. The PRV then could also lose it ability to relieve water pressure out of the boiler. (Unless it is piped so that it would back up in the catch cup....works as a funnel.....under the backflow preventer.)
The condensate could also back up into the heat exchanger causing ignition delays, possibly banging etc.

Hopefully your service tech will figure every thing out.

nikibooks

I think the guy will be here before long and I will stay here and not go back to the hospital for husband is out of ICU and being cared for. Things can get complicated.

I just shut off the water valve this morning. Didn't get that figured out last night. But the pressure and the leaking was continuing, so I saw the pressure valve going up and up and not release itself. I lifted it and now it's back down from 40 to 18 psi. Water shut off.

nikibooks

Serviceman did come... couldn't get the noise to happen (no surprise to me)... and didn't have a combustion gas analyzer with him, so he's coming back tomorrow morning. FYI. Stay tuned...

JUGHNE

The gas analyzer is important however the issue of high pressure is something to figure out first. Could be compression air tank charge or water fill valve.

Zman

Could we see some better pics of the pipe coming from the prv?
As I said before it is the most important safety component in your house. If it is positioned in a way that it can be plugged, that is a serious issue.

nikibooks

For Zman

The drips are pretty constant out this PRV pipe. It is way up in mid-air away from everything, too high to reach easily from the steep hillside.

The other view includes the condensate pipe aiming straight down about 4 feet in mid air; it goes through a filter so the drips can legally land in the dirt too.

nikibooks

Jug, first thing he checked was compression air tank charge and had to add pressure to it. Manually he stopped the leak with a bit of a tightening turn on that fitting. Overnight the glass olive jar had filled up politely below the rim.

nikibooks

He also determined my gauge reads about 10 pounds when there is no pressure. So my readings have been off.

Right now, as he said I could have heat and hot water overnight, it is running. The gauge reads 38, so the psi must be 28. When he left 7 hrs. ago it was at 28, or really 18. Maybe I'll buy a new gauge too.

JUGHNE

The PRV should stop dripping unless the pressure is borderline at 30PSI. If it drips under normal operation it should be replaced.

They need exercised/ flushing about once a year.
It is very convenient to be able of observe the end while flushing.

Is this on LP gas or Natural gas?

nikibooks

natural gas

nikibooks

Pressure gauge reads 35, but it is unknowable how wrong it its, whether is over-reads 10 lbs straight or has an exponential misread. It dripped all summer when no floor heat was being called for, only domestic HW.

nikibooks

Here's the status. Boiler getting new burner shipped from out-of-state, to be installed on Monday. No heat or hot water until then. The PRV is now replaced. The biggest culprit was probably an iron reducing valve, all occluded and corroded. Now replaced with a brass reducing valve. New expansion tank valve too. Man! Four new parts needed. (I have new flame sensor and igniter parts in baggies standing by if needed Monday.) I am wiped out by this saga. The burner had bombed out places on the surface.