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Steam pipes filling with water............

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Roland_18
Roland_18 Member Posts: 147
in THE MAIN WALL
Happy New Year all,

My Father in law has an ancient snow man steam boiler which was converted from coal to oil to gas. After much fiddling by his heating contractor, it is running well. Last month he and his wife were awakened by a horrendous water hammer. An investigation soon followed. It seems that the risers were full of water due to a bit of grit holding the auto water feed open. This was resolved by the contractor. My question; Is there a device which can sense an over-fill situation and shut off the feed water?

Thanks in advance, Roland..................

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  • Abracadabra
    Abracadabra Member Posts: 1,948
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    Roland said:

    Happy New Year all,

    My Father in law has an ancient snow man steam boiler which was converted from coal to oil to gas. After much fiddling by his heating contractor, it is running well. Last month he and his wife were awakened by a horrendous water hammer. An investigation soon followed. It seems that the risers were full of water due to a bit of grit holding the auto water feed open. This was resolved by the contractor. My question; Is there a device which can sense an over-fill situation and shut off the feed water?

    Thanks in advance, Roland..................

    What will this "new device" do when a bit of grit holds open it's own shutoff valve?
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,713
    edited January 2017
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    Abracadabra said:

    Roland said:

    Happy New Year all,

    My Father in law has an ancient snow man steam boiler which was converted from coal to oil to gas. After much fiddling by his heating contractor, it is running well. Last month he and his wife were awakened by a horrendous water hammer. An investigation soon followed. It seems that the risers were full of water due to a bit of grit holding the auto water feed open. This was resolved by the contractor. My question; Is there a device which can sense an over-fill situation and shut off the feed water?

    Thanks in advance, Roland..................

    What will this "new device" do when a bit of grit holds open it's own shutoff valve?
    They were simply asking of such a protection device exists. Not asking someone to create one.

    But to answer your question, it won't let the feeder add water to the boiler, same thing that happens if a LWCO fails or the feeder fails. It won't work.


    @Roland Sadly, the only device like you asked about that exists is the human hand. I don't have an auto feeder as I was concerned about such problems. I manually feed water when the boiler needs it which is once a month in mild weather, once a week in very cold weather.


    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
    BobC
  • DanHolohan
    DanHolohan Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 16,530
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    You can use a probe-type low-water cutoff in the boiler header. Use a relay to reverse it's action so that it closes a solenoid valve when water reaches it.

    How'd I do?
    Retired and loving it.
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,713
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    DanHolohan said:

    You can use a probe-type low-water cutoff in the boiler header. Use a relay to reverse it's action so that it closes a solenoid valve when water reaches it.

    How'd I do?


    I like my way better.

    But I'm not biased or anything.

    :p
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • DanHolohan
    DanHolohan Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 16,530
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    Ah, Chris, my brilliant engineering career nipped in the bud. Alas!

    Retired and loving it.
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 23,338
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    Actually, @Dan Holohan , that was what I was going to suggest too. It isn't foolproof -- the valve could still hang up, but it surely would work.

    Not totally fool proof, though -- and I can't think of a way to make a truly fail operational system out of it. Working on it...
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,713
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    If I wanted something automatic, I'd move Dan's idea down to the gauge glass and modify and mount an extra high LWCO on it. No reason to wait until the water hits the header.

    Credit still goes to @Dan Holohan
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • DanHolohan
    DanHolohan Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 16,530
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    Jamie! We could get rich. ;-)
    Retired and loving it.
  • Roland_18
    Roland_18 Member Posts: 147
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    Thanks to all for the ideas. Don't commercial boilers have such protection? I like the LWCO with the relay. Just have to convince my Father in law to let me try...................
  • DanHolohan
    DanHolohan Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 16,530
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    Commercial boilers usually have boiler-feed pumps. A pump controller on the boiler operates the feed pump, and you can use one the pump controller's switches for a high-water alarm, or to shut off the feed water with a solenoid valve.
    Retired and loving it.
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 11,062
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    The high water probe was in my mind also, however I was wondering where to put it to avoid false alarms. The header seems the logical place.

    The probe would be subject to only steam, would it be more subject to scaling up without water movement to wash on it?
    If so then it should be removed perhaps every 2 years for inspection. Then to test it one would have to flood the boiler to that point, (which also gives you a leak test BTW).
    So we would have added 2 or 3 electronic devices which would stump some service people.......(another posting here had a vapor stat jumped because of a knucklehead.)

    IIWM, I would simply add a good strainer ahead of the fill valve which probably already had a neglected one. Redundant strainers. To be easily checked by adding a blow down valve on the strainer CO plug.
    (Gives you a reason to visit the in-laws :| )
  • DanHolohan
    DanHolohan Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 16,530
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    Sorry about that.
    Retired and loving it.
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,713
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    DanHolohan said:

    Sorry about that.

    I had considered buying this and wiring it to my LWCO as a low water alarm in case something goes awry.

    Thoughts?


    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • DanHolohan
    DanHolohan Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 16,530
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    I probably wouldn't hear that.

    WHAT?
    Retired and loving it.
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,713
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    DanHolohan said:

    I probably wouldn't hear that.



    WHAT?

    They have actual real fire alarms like it but they're upwards of $100. I think I'd hear it. :)
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • DanHolohan
    DanHolohan Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 16,530
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    SOMEBODY AT THE DOOR!?
    Retired and loving it.
    ChrisJ
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,550
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    I have seen jobs with a "high water cutoff". Nothing is 100% fool proof but you could use a float mounted McDonnell Miller wired to a solenoid valve. It gets expensive though

    I would go with a good strainer in the water line ahead of the feeder and make sure the water pressure doesn't exceed what the feeder can handle

    The other option is an over flow trap mounted at the top of the sight glass piped to a drain if you have one.
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 11,062
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    ChrisJ, I might have a box full of those alarms....might be 12VDC though. Came from an upgrade to 24 VDC strobe/horns.
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,713
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    JUGHNE said:

    ChrisJ, I might have a box full of those alarms....might be 12VDC though. Came from an upgrade to 24 VDC strobe/horns.

    12VDC.
    Hmm, it'd require a power supply and a relay but it's doable.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 11,062
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    The one you pictured was DC BTY. Fire alarm has to be able to run on batteries.
    ChrisJ
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,713
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    JUGHNE said:

    The one you pictured was DC BTY. Fire alarm has to be able to run on batteries.

    I have no idea how I missed that.
    I thought it was AC.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • Abracadabra
    Abracadabra Member Posts: 1,948
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    Try this siren: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04SMJlwosZ0
    ChrisJCanucker

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