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PowerPile VS8178C 1010 gas valve.

MrMagicMrMagic Member Posts: 10
edited December 2016 in Gas Heating
Hello I have a PowerPile VS8178C 1010 gas valve on my furnace. It has 4 terminals PP1,PP2,TH1, and TH2. The pilot is lit but the main burner will not start. So far

I removed all wires from the terminal on the gas valve and measured resistance between PP on the left and TH on the right, which was 2 ohms.

I measured 650 millivolts on the thermopile with wires disconnected from the valve and the pilot lit.

I reconnected thermopile wires back to the valve on PP1 and PP2 terminals. PP2 and TH1 are connected with a metal plate across the middle terminals. The Thermostat is attached across TH1 and TH2 terminals.

With everything reconnected and the Thermostat off I measure 650 millivolts on PP1 and PP2.

With everything reconnected and the Thermostat on I measure like 15 millivolts on PP1 and PP2.

Do you think the valve is bad or the thermopile needs to be replaced?

Thanks for any help that can be provided in advance.

Comments

  • MrMagicMrMagic Member Posts: 10
    There is plate on the side with Richmond Gas fired furnace model VG-36-100 series AS176-8FA
  • Tim McElwainTim McElwain Member Posts: 3,884
    Go to the top of this section and look for "Before you ask" click on the second "here" and look for my picture, the procedure for testing powerpile is there. Let us know how you make out.
  • Tim McElwainTim McElwain Member Posts: 3,884
    I believe you have a VS8187 gas valve which is obsolete and no longer available. If it needs replaced a VS820A combination valve from Honeywell will replace it. You will need to remove everything from the manifold and install the VS820 which includes the pilot-on-off valve and the gas pressure regulator in the valve.
  • MrMagicMrMagic Member Posts: 10
    Thanks Tim

    I’ll take some more readings next time I go home..
    Here are the readings I have so far from your troubleshooting procedure..

    Open Circuit 650 Millivolts
    Closed Circuit (Controls in Circuit) 15 Millivolts
  • Tim McElwainTim McElwain Member Posts: 3,884
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  • MrMagicMrMagic Member Posts: 10
    Took some more readings

    Open Circuit 662 mV
    Closed Circit 100 mV
    Closed Circit (controls jumped out) 14.5 mV
    Th terminals 6.4mV
    limit switch .1 mV
    Tjermostat 4.8 mV
  • Tim McElwainTim McElwain Member Posts: 3,884
    If you jump out the TH1 and TH2 terminals does the burner come on? If so then the gas valve is okay and either one of the controls is holding the job off or you may have a loose wire. The 662 millivolts should be plenty to get the system to work. What controls do you have on the furnace? I assume you have a Fan/Limit control. The limit side of that control should be wired in series with the thermostat what is the millivolt reading across the limit switch? What is the make and number on the thermostat?
  • MrMagicMrMagic Member Posts: 10
    The burner does not come on with TH1 and TH2 jumped out. The fan is not connected to the thermostat. The fan is connected to a low limit switch and comes on after the furnace heats up.
    sometimes the Closed Circuit voltage is 100 mV and others it is 14.5mV across the PP terminals.

  • MrMagicMrMagic Member Posts: 10
    I took some pictures of my valve with my phone. The number looks to be VS8178 1010. Would the VS820A still be the replacement?
  • MrMagicMrMagic Member Posts: 10
  • Tim McElwainTim McElwain Member Posts: 3,884
    You are correct with that number. The VS820A will replace it also. You can eliminate the bleed tubing from the gas valve. You will also have to connect the tubing for the pilot to the VS820A valve and plug off the small valve at the main shut off.
  • MrMagicMrMagic Member Posts: 10
    Thanks TIM.
  • MrMagicMrMagic Member Posts: 10
    My gas valve has 1010 at the end does it matter which VS820A I get? Below is what I see online.

    VS820A1047/U

    750mV Standard Opening Gas Valve. 1/2 x 3/4" with 1/2" side outlets. Set 3.5" WC.

    VS820A1054/U

    750mV Standard Opening Gas Valve. 3/4 x 3/4" with 1/2" side outlets. Set 3.5" WC.

    VS820A1088/U

    750mV Standard Opening Gas Valve. 3/4 x 3/4" with 1/2" side outlets. Set 3.5" WC.


    VS820A1187/U

    750mV Standard Opening Gas Valve. 1/2 x 1/2". Set 3.5" WC.


    VS820A1336/U

    750mV Standard Opening Gas Valve. 3/4 x 3/4" with 1/2" side outlets. Set 10.0" WC.


    VS820C1100/U

    750mV Step Opening Gas Valve. 3/4 x 3/4 with 1/2" side outlets. Step Rate 0.9" WC; Full Rate 3.5” WC
  • Tim McElwainTim McElwain Member Posts: 3,884
    VS820A1054/U

    750mV Standard Opening Gas Valve. 3/4 x 3/4" with 1/2" side outlets. Set 3.5" WC.

    The valve comes with flush bushings so it can handle any size pipe 3/4" and down.
  • Pino98Pino98 Member Posts: 6
    TIm,

    My friend is having the same issue that MrMagic was. The burner does not come on with TH1 and TH2 jumped out. I would like to know what else to test but I think it is the PowerPile is defective and the furnace is so old that the model number can't be read. Please see below of the set-up.









  • Tim McElwainTim McElwain Member Posts: 3,884
    What is your location? The reason I ask is the piping setup really is overkill with all the tubing. As the first thing to try is to disconnect the tubing from the regulator to the gas valve. Then try and see if it comes on, you will get a little gas coming out of were you disconnected the tubing. If the burner comes on then you have a plugged bleed tubing from the gas valve. Clean the tubing and while you are at it clean the pilot. There is a little orifice in the connection at the pilot.

    Am I seeing correctly that there is a regulator in the pilot tubing line?

    If that does not work then we have to take some millivolt readings.
  • Tim McElwainTim McElwain Member Posts: 3,884
    To take readings do the following in the "Gas Heating" section look for Before you ask . . . then click on the second "here" (in Red), then look for my picture and finally click on Procedure for Troubleshooting Powerpile Systems.
  • Pino98Pino98 Member Posts: 6
    Tim,

    Thanks for the information. I am handy but in no way an expert at this. When you say "disconnect the tubing" I assume you are talking about the tubing from the regulator which is before the gas valve. Am I correct?

    Also it looks like my friend has two regulator hood up and I do not believe that the one that is in-line with the gas valve is doing anything. The one that you see on the floor goes to the pilot and has a shut-off screw further up the gas line. When I turned this screw the pilot when out, which told me that that regulator is the one that is lighting the pilot.

  • Pino98Pino98 Member Posts: 6
    Tim,

    Also my location is in Flint, MI
  • Tim McElwainTim McElwain Member Posts: 3,884
    The regulator that is ahead of the gas valve has to stay it is reducing gas pressure to probably 3.5" W.C. for safe operation of the gas valve. The regulator going to the pilot is really not necessary but you leave it in place.

    The disconnection you want to make is right at the outlet to the gas valve. If the tubing going into the burner area is plugged it will hold the system off. I am just testing to see if that is so. You can then if you want to pull that tubing and see if it is clear. It allows the gas to "bleed" off the top of the valve internally so the valve will open. If it is plugged it will keep the valve from opening.
  • Pino98Pino98 Member Posts: 6
    Okay, It looks like I may have to remove the whole pipe (which includes the gas valve and regulator) as I do not see a way to just remove the gas pipe on the outlet of the gas valve due to the 90 degree bend in the pipe right after the gas valve outlet.

    Any suggestions on how to accomplish this without removing all this?
  • Tim McElwainTim McElwain Member Posts: 3,884
    You are disconnecting the tubing not the pipe. At this point I would suggest you get someone who understand how to trouble shoot these systems. Ask them when you call them if they understand how Powerpile works and how to troubleshoot, if not call someone who does.
  • Pino98Pino98 Member Posts: 6
    Tim,

    Thanks for all the help. I will disconnect the tubing and see how it goes.
  • Tim McElwainTim McElwain Member Posts: 3,884
    How did you make out???
  • Pino98Pino98 Member Posts: 6
    Tim,

    Since it warm weather has hit I have not been by my friends location to clean out the pilot tubes. I will be there this weekend and will clean out the pilot tube as you suggested and see what happens. do you know if anyone in the Michigan area that is an expert at these systems?
  • Tim McElwainTim McElwain Member Posts: 3,884
    No I do not know anyone in the Michigan area who is well versed on Powerpile Systems.
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