Mud Room is Cold

DH123

I've got a Peerless boiler w/4 zones (1 radiant, 2 FHW, 1 Hot water tank). I have (1) 8' baseboard
strip in the mud room which measures (20' x 6') is insulated well but is on a zone with the down stair
of the main house. I'm told it should really have 8.2 ft of baseboard but 8' should be more than
enough. The guy I spoke to indicated that room has it's own climate and I need to add another
zone. I agree, but that's a huge amount of work to add another zone. I'm wondering if I could do some
type of hybrid design where I create a zone system that shares one circulate between the mud room and
my the hot water heater? I have a Taco SR-504 control system, I'm assuming I would need to get a separate control system for a zone valve?

Jamie Hall

Can't say I'd recommend it. The heating system is, or should be, a closed circuit. The hot water heater -- I presume domestic hot water -- is open circuit. Very different pressures. You wouldn't want to drink the water from the heating system... or at least I wouldn't.

You could do it with a heat exchanger and a couple of pumps and so on, but that strikes me as the hard way to live.

I'd either add more radiation -- if the boiler has the capacity -- or electric or gas space heat.

Mud rooms aren't usually all that warm anyway, though?

kcopp

You are really left w/ two more practical solutions... Find a way to seal and insulate better in the mudroom or add a larger section or a higher output type of hot water baseboard.
For example if you have Sterling kompak you can upgrade to Sterling Senior.
If you have S/fin 30 you could go to S/f 80...
You get the idea.

New England SteamWorks

Depending on how they piped the zone, you might have balancing valves on that loop. These do just what they say, they balance the flow of hot water so that the mud room can get it's fair share. Look for a split and two valves in the area of the tee.

DH123

I don't think I explained my problem very well.

My mud room is on a zone with the main floor of the house. The thermostat for the main floor of the house is in the living room. When I attempted to purchase additional baseboard from a heating supplier I was told "8' of base board is fine for your windows, walls, and non-heated cement floor in your MR. Your problem is you have a complete separate climate zone in your mud room. Put it on it's own zone."

I don't have room to just add another zone. Wait till next summer.

My thought about the hybrid system was to have (2) separate systems (at least for this winter). Three of the circulators would function as they presently do, the 4th circulator (that controls my hot water tank) would be changed into a zone valve system and the circulator would be shared by the hot water tank and the mud room. I don't like this solution but I know I can make the system work independently, my concern is making them work together without fighting for control.

By the way I'm an Electrical Engineer by trade. I was told a long time ago by a pretty good engineer "we just draw stuff on paper the guys that really know what they are doing have to make it work."

KC_Jones

What is the heatloss of the mud room?

njtommy

You can do a heat loss calculation your self it's very easy todo. You can down load the Slant/Fin app or look online for one and confirm you have enough baseboard for your mud room currently.

Yes you can use the same pump as your indirect tank uses depending on size of the pump. I will assume that it's a taco 007 cause that seems to be the go to pump everything. But sometimes it's a much larger pump to satisfy the DHW demands and flow rates of the tank. So you may not be able to run it off that zone. Also if you install a zone valve make sure it doesn't limit the amount of GPM you need to your tank.

That being said it really shouldn't be a problem adding two zone valves to your current loop and pump now. realistically it shouldn't more then a day to do depending on skill level of tech and how hard it is to run new piping. Posting pictures of your system can help us out to see what your up against.

Brewbeer

Is the mud room in the beginning of the main floor loop, or at the end of the main floor loop? How long is the main floor loop (e.g., total length of pipe from boiler through loop back to boiler), how many feet of finned convectors are on the loop, and what is the diameter of the pipe feeding water through the loop? How frequently does the main floor loop run?

Putting 8 feet of baseboard on its own zone would probably cycle the boiler excessively. Maybe change out the 8 feet of fin tube for 8 feet of cast iron baseboard, and make sure it is at the start of the loop.

DH123

Brewbeer- I like the name. That was my initial thought but the
supplier directed me to a new zone.

Let me collect some information and I'll report back.

DH123

This is what I have:
Cal Heat Loss- Main House-25862, 31' of baseboard +
9000BTU under counter heater.
Mud Room- 5600, 8' of baseboard - should 10'
Combined- 31462

My existing loop is 3/4" copper measuring 95-105' including 39'
of baseboard and (1) 9000 BTU under counter heater ( the paperwork says it's equivalent to 14' of baseboard.)

I divided the combined total 31462 by 580 BTU/FT (3/4" baseboard output) to determine the total amount of baseboard required. I got 54.24' of baseboard.

I'm wondering if my loop is to long and if I should consider
breaking the main house and mud room into two equal loops
and placing the 2nd thermostat closer to the area being measured.

Thoughts?