Gorton #2 operation

genericnj

I just replaced a faulty old main vent with a Gorton #2 on my system and also adjusted the pressure from 5psi to 2.5psi. Previous vent was constantly open and wooshing like crazy the whole time. The new gorton does not seem to make much noise, if any, during warm-up. During warm-up I can see some steam coming out of it, when the system reaches full pressure and steam is throughout, then i still can see a hint of steam coming out from the gorton. Is this normal or do I have a faulty vent?

Also, when I shake the vent there is no sounds from inside as with most vents.. sorry if this is a real noob question--am new to the steam world..

many thanks!

gerry gill

you should NOT see steam come out. Steam loss equals constant excessive water intake, which equals bad news for boiler.

Paul48

Since you are new to steam......I'd suggest you get a steam pro in to evaluate your system. Beyond the vent, what you are describing points to boiler/system issues. Your system should run on ounces of pressure. The fact that it has to get to those kind of pressures needs to be looked at.

genericnj

I should note that the boiler was set to run at 5psi prior to me moving here. I lowered it per all the threads I read on this forum and it did not seem to affect the heating -- all radiators are heating perfectly fine at the 2.5 psi i set it to.

Also, the vents on radiators do make venting noise on warmup and on cooldown as expected. I am just not sure that the gorton is venting as it should be since it is entirely new to me.

There was no issues with steam getting to all my rads after I changed it, just that I was expecting to hear some loud venting from a huge vent like this...

KC_Jones

The more venting the quieter it should be. Think of what it sounds like when you blow through a straw, now blow through a 2" pipe and see what that sounds like. Bigger hole less noise.

You say you set it to 2.5 (which is still too high) is it actually cutting out at that pressure? If so how long does it take?

If you are regularly running pressure that high you either have a massively oversized boiler or not enough venting or both. There is some simple calculations you can make to figure out where you are. First I would recommend doing the EDR calculations for your radiators. This will tell you the size of your system. You can then compare that to the boiler rating plate to see how close the sizing is. Then you can measure your mains in the basement and this will help determine how much venting you may need. It's possible the single Gorton is enough, but the measurements will tell the story. Measure length and pipe size. If you post the information here we can help you analyze what you have.

genericnj

Apologies for delayed response--had some family matters to attend to so heating took a back-seat..

The update is that the #2 vent I had was faulty -- it was stuck shut. I took it off and tried the blow test and nearly popped my head ... I returned it for a refund and purchased another. The 2nd one arrived and works, but not perfectly. When the system is cold and the boiler starts to warm up, I hear it venting, not anything loud or crazy, but definitely vents, then shuts and gets hot to the touch -- but then shortly after it seems to cool down slightly and then reopens some more and again shuts off around the time the boiler is reaching cut-out point. When it shuts off the second time, it seems to never get a 100% seal, it doesnt leak water or hiss steam, but has a slight scrathing sound coming from it and occassionally i can see a poof of steam seep out. It seems to happen from 1-2 psi mostly as the boiler cycles on and off building and dropping pressure.

Regarding the above questions on my system. I have a total of 6 radiators, 3 on 2nd floor and 3 on 1st floor. Boiler is a Slant Fin 125k btu Galaxy unit. Originally setup for 5 psi. I further reduced the cut in to be minimum at .5 and 1psi on top of that, it seems to cut in at 1 psi and off at 2 psi now.

Regarding the lengths of main -- it is an L shape main sort of like below:

+----------30 ft of main here------------- [ Boiler ]
|
| <- 20 ft of main on this side
|
o <- vent and also return lines start here

Pipes branch off the main to service the 6 radiators.
Originally the system had 8 radiators, but 2 were removed by previous owner.

All mains are uninsulated in basement (planning to do it as some point in future).

Heating works fine (aside from all the rads leaking from valves..), but I want to make sure the #2 is a good choice for me....

Do all main vents only vent air out, but not retrieve air after the heat cycle is complete? I noticed the #2 never sucks air back in, the radiators seem to do that. Also, if there is multiple firings within the same hour, it seems the #2 does not cool enough to reopen and stays shut for the next cycle, forcing the rads to do the venting. Would the hoffman 75 be a better choice?

Thank you all again for your opinions and advice.

BobC

Vents let air out when steam is coming down the pipe and they let air back in when the vent cools off after the call for heat ends.

Try holding a mirror or cold piece of chromed steel up to the vent and see if it fogs up when it's making that sound, if it does it's not sealing right.

Your pressure gauge is not accurate at 2psi so the real pressure could be more than you think it is (pressuretrols are inaccurate at the low end of the scale).

50ft of main really needs more than a single #2, you would have been better off with a Barnes and Jones BigMouth - it equals about 1.8 Gorton #2's and is a much more robust part. So you can either try to get that questionable vent replaced and add another beside it or you just go with a single BigMouth. Then you can start playing with the radiator vents, I suggest using adjustable vents because it cuts down a lot of vent swapping. The best choices are Ventrite #1, Maid O Mist 5L (comes with 5 orifices in the box), and the Hoffman 1a - the heatimer varivent is usually not a good choice in most situations.

Bob

Jamie Hall

I might add that that Gorton might not be faulty. They are rated to a maximum of 3 psi, if I recall correctly.

Sailah

If anyone has a non functional Gorton that they don't mind donating to science, I would like to cut one open and examine.

Or I'll swap a functional Gorton #2 for a Big Mouth at half price.

Thanks

nicholas bonham-carter

Somewhere here is a video showing the insides of a dissected Gorton, maybe done by Gerry Gill?--NBC

Sailah

I would like to test them on our rack and examine the seating surface. I assume it's some type of bimetallic element?

genericnj

Sailah -- The #2 does have a bi-metal element that heats and pushes the seal closed, it does not use an alcohol-filled float like the hoffman and others. I have read quite a few stories of #2s not sealing 100%. There is even a video of one on youtube someone made with very similar leak to mine, albeit slightly worse.

BobC -- the original vent that was on was an old tiny hoffman, looks like a #43. Definitely looked to small and was stuck wide open constantly shooting out tons of steam before I brushed up on steam systems and learned that 'it's not normal'.... I did test with a mirror per above and it does collect a very tiny bit of mist on it every few seconds while it is making the sound, it seems to be coming out of one of the 4 holes...

After the first faulty #2, i had a #1 gorton on there, which sealed nicely, no issues, but I wanted the extra venting of the #2, which is why i only used the #1 temporarily. It doesn't look like I'm losing much steam through the #2 ,but at the same time, i dont want to have to keep checking if it is getting worse. I read somewhere that a squirt of wd-40 in the vent outlet will help it seal, but that sounds like a bad idea to me...

Re the BigMouth -- I will probably give it a shot, looks like a monster of a vent (and better fit too..)

Fred

Squirting WD40 into that vent will end up causing you to have to skim the boiler to get the oils out. It may take a few weeks but even the smallest amount of oil finds its way back to the boiler. Not the best idea.

genericnj

Fred, that was my thought exactly -- hence why I stayed away from doing so

genericnj

Just ordered the Big Mouth on amazon and going to return the Gorton. Read some of the comments on the forum about the Big Mouth -- really looking forward to it!

New England SteamWorks

genericnj said:

Boiler is a Slant Fin 125k btu Galaxy unit.

Also, if there is multiple firings within the same hour, it seems the #2 does not cool enough to reopen and stays shut for the next cycle, forcing the rads to do the venting.

1. I am currently living in Galaxy boiler hell, so while a little off topic, if you wouldn't mind posting a picture of your boiler and it's piping, and maybe even a video of the gauge glass when she is steaming, your contribution to science would be invaluable. Please post this info in this thread.

You might want to also post it here in case you would like us to evaluate that as well.

2. Some, but not all, thermostats have a CPH (cycles per hour) setting. Generally with steam 1 CPH is all that is needed, and this will solve the problem of multiple firings in the same hour.

Gordo

@Sailah :This is a video of the insides of a Gorton #2. Pretty simple looking construction using first class materials all in all. I suspect that on occasion too much hardened flux gets on the seat and allows them to leak.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeYDZvD7NmI

gerry gill

had a customer yesterday with two leaky gorton #1 main vents. Replaced both with Barnes & Jones vari vents. No leaky no more

Dollr

I'm a home owner with steam heat who has learned a lot from this great forum and Dan's books. My experience - I needed more venting on my mains and added 2 Gorton #2 at the end of the heating season last year. They seemed to be working alright but they never really got a good workout until now. So, they began to leak at random times now that things are cranking. Made me mad so I ordered the glorious Big Mouth. That thing is great! No problems with that. From my experience I would not recommend the Gortons. Just felt I should share my experience. Thanks again for all the great info on this site.

Sailah

> @gerry gill said:
> had a customer yesterday with two leaky gorton #1 main vents. Replaced both with Barnes & Jones vari vents. No leaky no more

Gerry you're like a one man vari venting machine!

I do like the Big Mouth but I think the Vari Vent is under utilized and quite a little engineered package. Does lose out to its big brother in CFM but makes up for it in utility.

Sailah

> @Dollr said:
> I'm a home owner with steam heat who has learned a lot from this great forum and Dan's books. My experience - I needed more venting on my mains and added 2 Gorton #2 at the end of the heating season last year. They seemed to be working alright but they never really got a good workout until now. So, they began to leak at random times now that things are cranking. Made me mad so I ordered the glorious Big Mouth. That thing is great! No problems with that. From my experience I would not recommend the Gortons. Just felt I should share my experience. Thanks again for all the great info on this site.

Thanks for the nice comment, I always enjoy hearing from end users that have had a good experience.

Dollr

Your welcome Sailah thanks for making it. Every time the heat comes on I run to the basement to watch the action. Love the "woosh" of air leaving the pipe!

Sailah

You know it's funny, I've made a lot of Big Mouths. Every single one that is out there I personally assembled, tested, boxed, labeled.

But I've never seen one in action at someone's house. I need to get an invite to somebody local...

gerry gill

Gerry you're like a one man vari venting machine!



I do like the Big Mouth but I think the Vari Vent is under utilized and quite a little engineered package. Does lose out to its big brother in CFM but makes up for it in utility.

Hi Peter- i feel the same way. The vari vent fits anywhere and its adjustability of output in cfm makes it my 'go to' vent.

Sailah

> @Hatterasguy said:
> You know it's funny, I've made a lot of Big Mouths. Every single one that is out there I personally assembled, tested, boxed, labeled.
>
>
>
>
>
> I think it's been about one year since we started this entire affair with an attempt at the F&T trap. It didn't work out due to the size but that begat the replacement for the Gorton #2.
>
> How many did B&J produce to date?

I think I'm right around 500.

I told the factory they get to start making them now that I have a system down. They laughed and said it's my project I get to keep doing them lol.

gerry gill

do you think in the long run, they will become one of your best sellers?

Sailah

> @Hatterasguy said:
> I think I'm right around 500.
>
>
>
> I told the factory they get to start making them now that I have a system down. They laughed and said it's my project I get to keep doing them lol.
>
> 500 units and they won't "mass produce" them yet?

Come on in and do 100 with me, it's mass production in my book. That's usually what I do at a time.

Maria assembles all the traps, she could do it in half the time it takes me. She's worked there for 29 years I think.

Sailah

> @gerry gill said:
> do you think in the long run, they will become one of your best sellers?

I doubt it we sell a lot more traps in a month. I never thought I would ever do more than 100 though. For word of mouth advertising strictly on here it's been a pleasant surprise.

Was a very enjoyable project, getting feedback from everyone. I spent a LOT of time in front of the lathe trying to get the trepan just right for the seal. Scrapped a lot of parts.

To get out to the next level I'd have to get my distributors to sell them. But they would want a big margin and I can't do that on this part and keep the price where it is. So I'll just keep doing like I do it.

BobC

"Come on in and do 100 with me, it's mass production in my book. That's usually what I do at a time.

Maria assembles all the traps, she could do it in half the time it takes me. She's worked there for 29 years I think. "

I'm glad to hear the company values such service, many in this age would deride such loyalty.

i hope you sell 10,000 of these vents, they are superior to anything else available, I just hope they all don't have to be milled by you!

Bob

genericnj

I just got home and received mine today from Amazon

The thing is seriously well built! I was impressed with the #2, but this is in a different league! Sailah -- thank you for engineering such a fantastic product. It's almost 11PM here, but am going to still install it tonight!

RI_SteamWorks -- re a pic of my Slantfin and video, I'll try to do one tomorrow for ya. I read through your other thread, mine does not have any surging issues unless I fill it to 3/4th full, then the water gets dark in the glass and bounces all way to top. If i keep it at center or slightly above then i get about 1 inch of bounce and only slight cloudiness while first running. After each cycle I do end up with lower level, which slowly recovers when the water returns.

genericnj

Big Mouth installed -- works great, once steam hits, few seconds and it is fully closed and does not reopen like the #2. Once the boiler shuts off and pressure drops to 0psi, within a couple mins the Big Mouth opens and lets air back in, which the #2 did not do for a good 30 mins or so. Overall very happy with the vent and the #2 is going back tomorrow.