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nozzel on riello burner

cableman
cableman Member Posts: 69
So i picked up a riello f3 to down size my peerless wbv-3. The recommended nozzel for the f3 and wbv-3 is a .50deg 90B but it seems to not be as common to find. Is it a big difference using an a or w if thats easier to find?
I still need to check out a local plumb shop to see if they can get any.
Thanks!
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Comments

  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 5,449
    Are you sure you have that right? In the spec book it says for a WBV-03-60 with an F3, a .50X60W
    steve
  • cableman
    cableman Member Posts: 69
    edited November 2016
    How come the manual says .50 x 90* B ?
    I just ordered 2 of the 90 b nozzels! Oh no which is correct?
  • billtwocase
    billtwocase Member Posts: 2,385
    Ditto what Steve has posted. Not positive, but I haven't run into a Riello running with anything other than a 60 or 70 degree nozzle. Could be wrong
  • billtwocase
    billtwocase Member Posts: 2,385
    I do see lower pump pressure where the 90 degree is spec
  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 5,449
    I guess you go with that nozzle.
    It's not uncommon for Riello to test alternate setups.
    Just set it up with smoke test and combustion analyzer.
    Let us know the results.
    steve
  • cableman
    cableman Member Posts: 69
    edited November 2016
    I gotta find some one that is willing to use an analyzer, they all say not needed! I cant fight them so ill keep looking for someone. Buddy's neighbor is a plumber so i had him ask and he said he would look up the settings and just use that. Does peerless have a tech line i could call and see what they say to use?
    I wonder why the tech book says different, which one to use! Has there maybe been a change in the newer models and i should go with the tech book since mines 18 years old
  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 5,449
    edited November 2016
    They who? No one in Canada has an analyzer? The problem probably is you went and bought it online, and it seems you can't get someone to come out. You're oil supplier won't come out and set up the burner? You really need to set it up properly, combustion and pump pressure. The numbers in the manual are your starting point, not the final set up.
    Like I posted earlier, use the nozzle from your manual and see what the numbers tell you.
    One very important point...Make sure you know if the fuel pump is set up for one pipe or two pipe-bypass plug installed. If the plug is in, and you put in on a one pipe, you'll blow the pump seal in seconds.
    steve
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 11,143
    Gotta use an analayzer
  • cableman
    cableman Member Posts: 69
    Im on longisland ny, the one guy listed on this site is really busy but he said he would call me back, been a while now so i dought he will.
    I buy cod oil so i dont have a contract, no one would take me when i only used 170gal of oil last year! Always burning wood but wife went back to work so that'll change.
  • billtwocase
    billtwocase Member Posts: 2,385
    Robert O'Brien on here is excellent, and from that area. If he sees this post, he might be able to help out?
  • cableman
    cableman Member Posts: 69
    Ok cool! I also did pulled the return port plug like noted
  • rick in Alaska
    rick in Alaska Member Posts: 1,280
    Call Riello and ask them which nozzle to use. They probably have tested it in your application. I know they have changed some specs after the unit was shipped, and wasn't able to correct the paperwork on time.
    And, You MUST USE AN ANALYZER!
    Rick
  • cableman
    cableman Member Posts: 69
    I called, he didnt see anything listed for a wbv3. Said stick with what the manual says to use.
  • cableman
    cableman Member Posts: 69
    With your guys tech notes saying to use the .50 60w, does the pump pressure and other settings stay the same as what the manuel has listed?

    I also read .50 nozzels get clogged up easy, i have a single feed and will be adding a spin on just after the general. Good enough?
  • cableman
    cableman Member Posts: 69
    Anyone know if there are any changes in the wbv-3 from a 1998 model to todays? Sure look the same.
    I tried contacting peerless and they emailed me back stating my year was made by a former peerless company not theirs so they dont have nozzel info for me.
  • stevieg
    stevieg Member Posts: 19
    Although its not really recommended unless you are very familiar with the way a Riello works, sometimes you have to go outside the box with them. I have spoken with Doug at Riello many times and when he is stumped on a system, You need to use judgment, Again, not recommended unless you know what you doing. You absolutely need a digital analyzer to set it up, Hands down no way no how you can be sure without it. I have had to jack pump pressures and change nozzle sizes, angles and patterns to get to where I need to be with some boilers. Its disturbing to think that a heat guy would say not needed on the analyzer, This to me is unacceptable. Riello IMO is the best burner worldwide with the exception of the Buderus Lo-nox, But that's a different discussion, but the Riello is very temperamental and needs the proper attention.
  • cableman
    cableman Member Posts: 69
    Thanks. I installed the .50 60w nozzel. Just gonna add a spin on filter with general at the tank, then ill look for someone qualified to tune it.
  • cableman
    cableman Member Posts: 69
    Quick question, are the only ignitor adjustments made from the screw holding the ceramic mount down?
  • stevieg
    stevieg Member Posts: 19
    For the most part yes, But you can bend the electrodes as needed. You should be able to fit a nickel through the tips snugly and the tips should be just in front of the nozzle. A .50x60xW is a common fix with a Riello, Be careful of the air adjustment, Its very touchy and it can blow the flame out after ignition if its opened even a little too much. This unit is only at a 1/2 gallon an hour so it can be temperamental. It is standard procedure and recommended to have a spin on filter on a riello. I would put the filter near the unit instead of at the tank though. Is it a single line or 2 line system and how far is the tank fron the unit?
  • cableman
    cableman Member Posts: 69
    edited December 2016
    Thanks stevieg. Tank is 12' from boiler one line bottom feed. I was gonna do a tigerloop on the new f3 but havnt had any issues with air so i figure ill leave it the same way.
    Should i leave it this way or change anything?
  • cableman
    cableman Member Posts: 69
    Hard to see but here's how i have ignitors adjusted now, i used metric allen keys as a guide.
  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 5,449
    Riello has an instructional manual with the burner. I think you're too far forward.
    Also, when you put the end cone back on, there is an orientation to it. Make sure the nozzle is centered in the hole as you look thru it from the front.
    For future nozzle changing, leave the head on, and remove the one set screw that allows you to pull the nozzle line independant of the electrodes and end cone. Then you wont have to touch the electrodes anymore.
    steve
  • cableman
    cableman Member Posts: 69
    edited December 2016
    Thanks again. I pulled it all apart 1 cause i didnt know what i was doing lol, 2 i cleaned it up really good! I do see the better way of removing the nozzel now.
    I enjoy tinkering and learning this stuff but the fine tuning ill leave to the pros.
    Will it be ok to add that filter assembly at the tank?
  • cableman
    cableman Member Posts: 69
    Have a tech coming out friday to install f3 and adjust it with anaylizer.

    I installed a double filter setup today, spiget and feed line to old general were pretty dirty!

    I thought i knew how to bleed this! Does the reset button have to be tripped in order to bleed it? I cracked the bleeder valve let some out but if i press reset it didnt prime, had to turn a thermastat up and it fired up and stayed on. I still feel like i need to bleed it though.
  • stevieg
    stevieg Member Posts: 19
    Bleeding a riello is a little different than bleeding any other burner. The split door that seals the gunline has to be cracked open, Then open the bleeder screw and make sure its going into a bucket properly, Have a flashlight ready, push the reset button and wait a few seconds, then shine the flashlight into the burner housing where you loosened the split door so the cad cell can see light. Let it run without flame until you have clean oil coming out. Shut down the system or just remove the flashlight and it will lock out within 5 seconds. Tighten everything up and your good to go. You don't need a tigerloop or a 2 pipe system if you have an old style steel tank and it feeds from the bottom, and its only 12' away. Don't waste your money..... Good luck bud.
  • stevieg
    stevieg Member Posts: 19
    Just saw the electrode picture, They are way to far forward. You want it just barely in front of the face of the nozzle
  • cableman
    cableman Member Posts: 69
    edited January 2017
    Thanks. So far its working so if it goes to reset ill bleed it the way you said to.
    Anytime you press the reset the burner should cycle on or it has to be tripped and lit up?

    On the electrodes, it says 2-2.5 so i just used a 2mm allen key and made it level with that. Ill have the tech set that stuff up for me.
  • stevieg
    stevieg Member Posts: 19
    The reset light is hard to see but if its out on reset, You have to look at the reset button almost directly, so you almost have to get on your hands and knee's to be able to see it.
  • cableman
    cableman Member Posts: 69
    edited January 2017
    I really wish you guys were local to me!
    So todays quick job was hooking it up, smoke test and draft test no anaylizer! Not even a pump pressure test.

    My shutter is also not active cause the new f3 is electronic and my old was hydraulic.
    Should i re-use my old hydraulic one or run the third wire to the aux on the burner? And is that all thats needed to make the electric one work?

    Look at the end on my old f5!
  • cableman
    cableman Member Posts: 69
    I realized i cant use my old f5 hydraulic shutter as the f3 cover is smaller.
    It looks like the shutter wires are in their factory locations and the burner works. The only thing im missing is the constant hot for the aux terminal. im confused though cause i read wires have to be moved around in order to by pass shutter.....
  • cableman
    cableman Member Posts: 69
    I traced the shutter wires and they were on correct terminals, ran a temp constant 120v to aux and shutter/burner worked perfectly.
    Clicked thermastat up this morn and observed the burner staying on for almost the whole cycle until thermastat was satisfied. Granted it was only a 1 deg rise on the thermastat but i guess dropping down to the f3 and lower nozzel should prevent any short cycles!
    Now to find someone with an analyzer.....
  • BornForDying
    BornForDying Member Posts: 40
    edited January 2017
    FWIW, I remove every hydraulic jack I see. More often than not, in my experience, they are leaking.

    I believe Riello has issued a service bulletin about them, recommending removal or replacement with an electric jack, although I couldn't find it with a Google search.
  • stevieg
    stevieg Member Posts: 19
    I will call Doug at Riello today and ask him for you.
  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 5,449
    The jacks are fine again. There was a time when Riello briefly switched their source for the ring in the jack. It was vulnerable to leaks from what they called aromatic fuel. They went back to their original source for the rings, all is fine.
    I've replaced about 3 jacks in over 20 years.
    steve
  • BornForDying
    BornForDying Member Posts: 40
    > @STEVEusaPA said:
    > The jacks are fine again. There was a time when Riello briefly switched their source for the ring in the jack. It was vulnerable to leaks from what they called aromatic fuel. They went back to their original source for the rings, all is fine.
    > I've replaced about 3 jacks in over 20 years.

    I haven't run into them on newer burners. Mostly old, leaky ones. I've also never seen an electronic shutter in the field.

    Thanks for the info though. I'll keep it in mind next time I see one.
  • cableman
    cableman Member Posts: 69
    Had Combustion test done today, results on my 20yo peerless wbv3 and riello f3....

    Pump pressure 145psi
    Draft -1/-3
    Co2 10.38%
    Co 0 ppm
    Stack temp 408*F
    0 smoke
    Eff 84.3%
  • cableman
    cableman Member Posts: 69
    Im guessing the tech should have adjusted this to get co2 above 11%? Is this setup bad?

    Also, is there any legal way i can make the electrical connection to the riello a quick connect? Would make it easier for me to move it out of the way during a cleaning.
  • BornForDying
    BornForDying Member Posts: 40
    I wasn't there, so I didn't see what your tech saw, but in my experience CO2 on a properly set Riello will rarely be lower than 11.5. Some appliance manufactures specify a minimum CO2
    percentage. The properly done smoke test really dictates where it ends up.
  • cableman
    cableman Member Posts: 69
    This is why i tend to do things myself. He said 11 to 12 was where you wanna be which it was at first, but then it settled in where it did and no adjustments were made. Shame i can't find anyone around here willing to set it up correctly, guess i have to leave it the way it is for now.
  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 5,449
    I think you're underfired. You could do better with the F3. Did you ask Riello if you could/should be positive draft over the fire?
    Proper insertion depth?
    Mounted properly, no air leaks?


    This has been going on for 4 months, and although I'm sure you're a nice guy, you may be exactly the kind of person most companies just don't want to deal with.
    Maybe you found a good person, didn't listen to them, they got frustrated.
    Maybe you haven't found a good person. If you were on a remote island, or a place with very little oil, I could understand the problem.
    There are plenty of good companies up your way, and more than a few guys on the wall near you, with a wealth of experience on Riello. If you reached out to them and they are not interested, there may be an obvious reason.

    Going over this post and your others:
    -You buy COD oil, so you're not getting a full service company or have access to their techs.
    -You only use 170 gallons/year.
    -Your trying to downsize your boiler. Now add up the cost of the new burner and all this fiddle-farting around. What's the goal? To knock off 20 gallons a year? To slightly increase run time?
    I'm not trying to be a ****, I'm trying to help you move on.
    You're options are:
    -leave it like it is, move on, get a hobby.
    -go with a full service oil company, and to get your business make it clear that you need their most experienced Riello tech to come over and ensure you are properly set up.
    The full service company may charge a little more for the oil, but at your volume it will be negligible.


    steve