Hydronic Flow Direction

gil

After replacing a B&G100 pump with a Taco007 pump, I became concerned about the direction of flow and from all that I have read so far, it seems that everything on my system has been running backward for at least the 16 years I have lived here. The water flows from the bottom of the boiler, through the pump then up to 4 zoned vertical pipes. It goes past a gate valve, a drain valve, a flow control valve (which I think is upside down), then to the baseboard heaters and returns to the top of the boiler through gate valves there. The replenishing water is to the far right of everything.
Purging the system of air would be impossible in this situation except for the automatic valve by the expansion tank or the individual valves on the baseboard units.
My question would be would there be any harm in reversing the pump motor to pump in the opposite (perhaps correct) direction after all these years, or should I hire a heating and cooling contractor to look at this, or should I leave well enough alone?

Ironman

Can you post some pics?

gil

Thanks for replying!

gil

removed

gil

Ironman

Can you step back a little and get a couple of pics that show the entire near boiler piping? It's difficult to tell what is connected to what in your present pics.

If you save your pics to your photo gallery, you can attach them by pressing the folded paper icon above the comments box and then pressing "choose file".

STEVEusaPA

I wouldn't just turn the pump around, but I would get the wires in the junction box .
My initial look at you pics is that it's set up pretty well for purging air-except maybe the zone on the right. The only probable problem is when you close and open those shut off valves, they'll probably leak. If you're lucky snugging up the packing nut may work.
It looks like you close the valve below the zone valve, open one zone valve at a time, and feed water thru the boiler, thru the zone, thru the zone valve and out the boiler-type drain valve thru a hose to a drain (should be hose in bucket in sink). Do one zone at a time. But more pics would help/confirm.

gil

Thanks . . . I will leave it alone (except for the wires into the box)

JUGHNE

When 2 or more zones were open with pump running, did you get a "clunk" hammering sound in the piping when one zone closed?

gil

The zones hardly ever clunk hard when they close; one zone is always opened with no thermostat.
I just get quite a bit of pinging and thumping through the pipes, especially in the morning and within the last year an occasional swooshing gurgling through one of the baseboards.

Alan Welch

why do you think the B&G 100 was mounted wrong all 16 years you lived there? if you replaced it with the Taco circulator did you check to see which way the arrow on the circulator casting is pointed? It should be pointing down from the way the piping looks, a simple fix.

Mark Eatherton

Need to see the opposite side of the Taco 007.

ME

gil

Yup, that was the problem Alan. A lot of what I read said the arrow should be pointing down but the arrow on the B&G (and subsequently the Taco) was pointing up.
That's the reason I asked the question.
Indeed everything was correct.
Thanks to all for clearing my confusion.

Mark Eatherton

If in fact it is pumping through the boiler backwards, when running under full load, the actual supplied water temperature should be EXTREMELY hot, like about 200 degrees F (assuming high limit is set for 180 degrees F). Correction is suggested.

Doesn't really surprise me that they installed it backwards. If it worked before (put out heat) "don't fix what ain't broken..."

Another indication would be hammering zone valves when closing. The Honeywell valves are made to close off AGINST flow. When closing WITH flow, the hammer like the hubs of hell. WHAM WHAM WHAM... If they do, you need to flip the pump 180 degrees.The reason you're not hearing major hammer is because of the zone that is stuck open, acting as a bypass.

Hatt, if you can tell which direction the pump is flowing based on that picture, you're a better man than I. I'd need to see the suction eye inlet channel to confirm. The arrow can't lie tho...

What kind of water temperatures are you seeing ?

ME

SWEI

It is possible the Series 100 actually did work when piped backwards. If the loop resistance was low enough (think old gravity system), there could have been 20 GPM moving through the boiler.

gil

Such interesting side comments!
1) In my original post I mentioned concern about the zone valves appearing to be installed upside down. That would explain not hearing them close.

2) Once about 7 years ago the coupler on the B&G broke. I fixed it but mentioned to an energy auditor that when it was broke, I didn't notice a whole lot of difference in the way the house heated. He told me that that was impossible. It now sounds like gravity was my friend.

I'm finding this forum to be a fascinating place with a really good reference section. A special thanks to the administrators.

Ironman

Mark Eatherton said:

If in fact it is pumping through the boiler backwards, when running under full load, the actual supplied water temperature should be EXTREMELY hot, like about 200 degrees F (assuming high limit is set for 180 degrees F). Correction is suggested.

Doesn't really surprise me that they installed it backwards. If it worked before (put out heat) "don't fix what ain't broken..."

Another indication would be hammering zone valves when closing. The Honeywell valves are made to close off AGINST flow. When closing WITH flow, the hammer like the hubs of hell. WHAM WHAM WHAM... If they do, you need to flip the pump 180 degrees.The reason you're not hearing major hammer is because of the zone that is stuck open, acting as a bypass.

Hatt, if you can tell which direction the pump is flowing based on that picture, you're a better man than I. I'd need to see the suction eye inlet channel to confirm. The arrow can't lie tho...

What kind of water temperatures are you seeing ?

ME

Mark,
After looking further at the pics, you can see that the top of the pump's volute is curved. That would make it the discharge side.

bob_46

are the arrows on the zone valves pointing up or down?

Gilmorrie

My question would be would there be any harm in reversing the pump motor to pump in the opposite (perhaps correct) direction

Gilmorrie

Gilmorrie said:

My question would be would there be any harm in reversing the pump motor to pump in the opposite (perhaps correct) direction

A centrifugal pump will pump water in the same direction no matter which direction the motor rotates.

bob_46

you want the arrow on the pump to point in the same direction as the arrows on the zone valves

JUGHNE

The arrows may be on the back side of the HW zone valves. Or the letter A is inlet, B is outlet. Most I have seen have the wiring connections on the inlet side of the valve.
You maybe did not get hammer when they closed because you have one zone fully open and not enough pressure was applied to slam the ball into place.

gil

Thanks for that information. I had looked and looked but couldn't find any arrows on the valves. It makes sense though that the pressure is always being dispersed; also with my wiring being on top, that would mean they were closing against the flow as they were designed to do as Mark had pointed out.