Old Vapor system that was converted too Steam

mcarpenter1976

I have a customer who is looking to replace her steam boiler. After I went to the house and after asking a few old timers I found out that it was an old vapor system (since there was a mechanism I never saw before) that was converted to steam. The customer claims she gets no heat on second floor master bedroom or bathroom. I also noticed that these pipes or radiators had no pitch to them. The customer said that she called the old homeowner and he said it always worked correctly. My biggest boggeling question; is this possible with no pitch and no vents??

mcarpenter1976

I should mention, this house is 1,800 sq. ft and the radiators had valves I have never seen before.

Abracadabra

You don't happen to have pics of this mechanism do you?

Jamie Hall

Check three things first... are the valves on those radiators really open? Do the risers/runouts to those radiators get hot or at least very very warm? Are there traps on those radiators?

And yes, it is possible to get steam to a radiator where the runouts have no pitch, but it will probably hammer or at least gurgle. What may be more of a problem is the pitch on the returns -- check that while you are at it. if water is trapped in the returns, you will indeed get no heat, since the returns allow the air to get out of the radiator so the steam can get in.

You don't need -- or want -- radiator vents on a two pipe or vapour steam system!

If the returns are hot -- close to or at steam hot -- you have a failed open trap somewhere else which is a problem.

JUGHNE

The terms of "vapor" and "steam" as far as how to ID what type of system this is, used to always confused me.
I believe it is simply what pressure the system operates at.

Some "vapor" systems will not operate well at all if someone "fixed" some previous problem by jacking up the operating pressure to several PSI. Some traps and valves will be overpowered by pressure.

Pictures of the boiler piping and especially the device in the basement. Also pictures of both ends of the typical radiators.

It would behoove you and your customer if you read "The Lost Art of Steam Heating" by Dan Holohan. Available on Amazon, I believe. Most people here use that book for reference, so we would all be on the same page.

PS. Replacing the boiler will not get heat to the second floor, that is most likely a piping and venting issue. I have learned that a large bill to the customer with out better results of heat delivery is hard to explain.

Jamie Hall

Chortle! Yeah, "vapour" is really just a fancy name for "very low pressure steam" -- but the thing about very low pressure steam is that one can do some really nifty things with it, and it's very fast. On the other hand, as @JUGHNE said -- if someone tried to "fix" a problem by jacking up the pressure, it made things worse. If this is really vapour -- and odd gadgets of all sorts seem to go with vapour -- you want the maximum cutout to be 12 ounces or less -- which means a vapourstat for your boiler control.

The boiler is NOT the problem, though its controls may not be helping any. Get the system working properly with the existing boiler first (unless it is really toast, of course).

And @JUGHNE -- I love your PS! So true!

JUGHNE

In the 40 years or so of "fixing" some things wrongly I have "eaten" some items, they are still on my shelves.

But nothing as major as a boiler change out.

Steamhead

mcarpenter1976 said:

I should mention, this house is 1,800 sq. ft and the radiators had valves I have never seen before.

Definitely take some pictures of all these things and post them. We should be able to ID pretty much anything out there, though there is always the chance that you've discovered something we haven't seen.