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Energy Kinetics System 2000

SuperTech
SuperTech Member Posts: 1,801
I work for a company called Comfort Master and we service and install a lot of gas and oil fired EK1 Frontier boilers. I really like these boilers. Energy efficient and if tuned correctly there will be nothing to clean inside the oil burner boilers. If they are set up correctly and properly maintained they last forever.

But....one thing I. I'm try to figure out. On nine out of ten of the oil fired boilers when I go to change the nozzle and clean the electrode the nozzle and the end of the electrodes are completely covered with a black coating. Sometimes i find them clean. All of our techs are using Testo analyzers and the boilers are tuned correctly and clean.

It's not causing any problems. When I called Energy Kinetics the answer I got was "hmm. That's a good question".


Any ideas guys?

Comments

  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 6,900
    Hmm. That's a good question.
    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • SuperTech
    SuperTech Member Posts: 1,801
    It's annoying. My draft overfire and at the breach is perfect. Very low CO ppm if any. CO2 is usually 10.5% and O2 is 5.5 to 6.5.
  • SuperTech
    SuperTech Member Posts: 1,801
    I'm open to any ideas. I always keep the pump pressure at 140 or 130 PSI depending on the firing rate. The head is a fixed design. I know not everyone has seen these boilers. The all have a regular Beckett AFG pump with and external oil solenoid valve on the nozzle line.

    I did notice one of the clean ones I saw had a clean cut pump on it.....
  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 6,900
    Is the nozzle coked or just discolored?
    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • SuperTech
    SuperTech Member Posts: 1,801
    It's just discolored. On the inside its usually clean. We always run two filters, a general filter at the tank and a spin on filter at the boiler
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 12,313
    Anything can change combustion:
    1. Temperature and density of the air
    2. Draft
    3. Temperature of the fuel
    4. Chemical make-up of the fuel
    5. Temperature of the boiler or furnace in the combustion zone

    All fuel oil is not the same. It has to fall within a range of standards, it doesn't all come out of the same well.

    Combustion testing is not an exact science. Your looking to keep combustion within a safe range not fixed #s that do not change

    If it isn't causing a problem don't worry about it
    SuperTech
  • SuperTech
    SuperTech Member Posts: 1,801
    That's what EK told me. I just keep thinking of all the things that could cause it and the technician part of me wants to make it perfect.

    Another thing I noticed on the Clea one it had the new Honeywell primary that reads the cad cell ohms. It was set up for quite a bit of pre purge. I wonder if that or the clean cut pump made a difference.
  • lchmb
    lchmb Member Posts: 2,997
    I've seen that happen with delivery companies who have cleaning agents in their fuel oil...
  • SuperTech
    SuperTech Member Posts: 1,801
    That's quite possible that it's the oil. But it definitely seems like I only see this on the System 2000. We see them all over the place. They can't all be getting the same oil .

    The clean one was chimney vent and we do see a lot of them with the combustion air piping hooked up but that really clean one didn't have it. We see some that are sidewall power vented but most are vented through a lined chimney. Draft is always where Energy Kinetics wants it.


    Had anyone else ever seen this!
  • brnrman1
    brnrman1 Member Posts: 32
    Thank you SuperTech and all for your comments!

    The combustion chamber provides a super-efficient and clean burning environment with a very wide range of fuel conditions. Heat from the chamber may sometimes cause slight discoloration of the nozzle surface without detrimental effects, and we accept that as a way to keep the more important heat exchange surface clean. You must agree that when you see our boiler in the basement you know your annual tune up will be a little easier than other boilers with pins and other things in the flue passages.

    We apologize for the “hmmm” response you mentioned, your feedback helps us and we’ll work hard to make sure we do better next time

    Roger Mitchell
    Technical Services
    Energy Kinetics
    [email protected]
    1.800.323.2066
    "Mitch"
    Roger Mitchell
    Senior Technical Representative
    Energy Kinetics
    SuperTech
  • DanHolohan
    DanHolohan Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 16,090
    I love the responsiveness of E.K. Thanks, Roger!
    Retired and loving it.
  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 5,775
    Would some more post purge from the primary control help this?
    steve
    billtwocaserick in Alaska
  • brnrman1
    brnrman1 Member Posts: 32
    Thank you for your question, Steve. In some site specific cases, primary control post purge may help. In cases where the discoloration is not causing any problems, natural draft from chimneys is adequate to keep the burner head cool and operating reliably so there’s no need to worry about it.

    Roger Mitchell
    Tech Services
    Energy Kinetics
    [email protected]
    1.800.323.2066
    "Mitch"
    Roger Mitchell
    Senior Technical Representative
    Energy Kinetics
    SuperTech
  • billtwocase
    billtwocase Member Posts: 2,385
    I have added post-purge to most of my units, and it does make a difference. Have been through the cracked retention heads, odors on borderline draft situations on shut down, etc. It is easy to do on it also
    SuperTech
  • billtwocase
    billtwocase Member Posts: 2,385
    A lot of residual heat that has nowhere to go is no good
  • SuperTech
    SuperTech Member Posts: 1,801
    Thank you guys so much, especially Roger! I never expected to get a response from EK on here!
  • SuperTech
    SuperTech Member Posts: 1,801
    The next time I'm working on a System 2000 and I find the nozzle and electrodes looking like that I'll have to talk to the customer on the benefits of the new Honeywell primary.
    I'll probably see a couple this week.
  • Roger
    Roger Member Posts: 249
    Thank you, Bill and SuperTech.

    To clarify Roger's comment, if there were excessive heat on the nozzle, you would most likely see signs of coking, after drip, etc. It those cases, outside combustion air should be connected to prevent back drafting over the burner head; primary control post purge is good, but not a complete solution. Outside combustion air alone can resolve these conditions. The discoloration on the nozzle discussed in this thread is well within the operating range and is likely not occurring after shutdown and does not pose a problem.

    SuperTech, if you'd like to visit this further, please give us a call and we can arrange to visit some sites with you.

    Best,
    Roger
    President
    Energy Kinetics, Inc.
    rick in Alaska
  • DanHolohan
    DanHolohan Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 16,090
    It's nice to hear from the owner! Thanks, Roger.
    Retired and loving it.
    Erin Holohan Haskell
  • Roger
    Roger Member Posts: 249
    You're welcome, and thank you for your great forum, Dan!
    President
    Energy Kinetics, Inc.
  • Erin Holohan Haskell
    Erin Holohan Haskell Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 1,901

    It's nice to hear from the owner! Thanks, Roger.

    Absolutely! Thanks, Roger.
    President
    HeatingHelp.com
  • TheOssMan
    TheOssMan Member Posts: 1
    Do I turn my system off or leave it on? My EK-1 System 2000 needed a reset on the burner because nothing was running and no heat or hot water were being produced. The temperature read out was blinking on 140 degrees and a variety of lights on the digital panel were on, no blinking. I reset the burner and it started working but after about 30 minutes it quit again. So, do I leave it on until service arrives on Monday or turn it off? I don't need the heat and I can wait on the hot water.
  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 5,775
    If you don't need it, turn it off.
    steve
  • Roger
    Roger Member Posts: 249
    Thank you for your question TheOssMan. A flashing 140 light will occur when the burner locks out - the manager will open heating zones and keep the circulator on to prevent heating piping from freezing. In your case, it sounds like there is a recurring burner lockout, which should be diagnosed and serviced as any burner lockout. As STEVEusaPA noted, it's fine to turn the boiler power off if you don't need it. It is OK to leave it in the 140 flashing light mode, although of course it will not provide heat or hot water with a burner lockout.

    If you'd like to see more diagnostic information on the digital manager, you can find it here including a video and pdf file that describes other types of diagnostic codes and testing:
    http://energykinetics.com/digitalmanagerheatingprofessional/

    Best,
    Roger
    President
    Energy Kinetics, Inc.
    Erin Holohan HaskellRobert O'Brien
  • DanHolohan
    DanHolohan Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 16,090
    Thanks, Roger. It’s always great to get advice from the guy who owns the company. Superb customer service!
    Retired and loving it.
    Robert O'Brien
  • Robert O'Brien
    Robert O'Brien Member Posts: 3,459
    On a Saturday night, no less!
    To learn more about this professional, click here to visit their ad in Find A Contractor.
  • Erin Holohan Haskell
    Erin Holohan Haskell Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 1,901

    On a Saturday night, no less!

    Yes! Thanks, Roger.
    President
    HeatingHelp.com
  • Roger
    Roger Member Posts: 249
    Glad to help! Have a great weekend!
    President
    Energy Kinetics, Inc.