cant fix this solder joint help please never seen this before nothng works

keyote

had a leak i never get leaks but ok it happens it was between a brass tee and copper pipe 1 1/4 pulled the pump and pulled it apart cleaned the hell out of them both and tried again could tell it wasnt flowing stopped pulled apart cleaned the pipe down to the copper and the brass fitting still was a bit tinned went together easy medium amount flux tried again , again took forever to heat up again seemed like it was beading never seen the likes original joints were difficult too mexican brass fitting with atomic graphic could the copper be anealed any help apreciated

Charlie from wmass

What size of tip are you using? What type of fuel? Is it dry?

keyote

its dry opened it up drained it out wiped itr out heated it to dry it and been at it all day its dry, using a b tank w acetylene thought maybe it was dirty and not right so switched to the map torch was being careful not to over heat so kept the solder on the joint while moving torch around then when the flux went off the solder didnt. it was like when you over heat or when a joints wet but neither were the case think it was a5 tip been using it for weeks ok

Charlie from wmass

1/3 on pipe 2/3 on fitting. Heat it. Take a lot to burn an 1 1/4" fitting. Especially brass.

keyote

its not possible to aneal copper so it cant be soldered then, i was going to get more agressive but i didnt want to have to take apart again or worse think its good and fill it w water again, so thought to ask

keyote

i soldered a whole boiler room full of brass no problems like this

Charlie from wmass

Is the pipe open to the atmosphere?

keyote

yeah the tees open and the copper has a open valve on it.

ratio

Brass to copper, maybe try 56%? It's overkill for plumbing I know, but I can't imagine it not taking, if all the solder is off.

Charlie from wmass

Turn up the heat or get better flux.

keyote

ok i just was thinking id over heated it by several attempts and it would never work

Charlie from wmass

Photo of the trouble fitting?

JUGHNE

Just did a small brass to copper. Used Stay Brite with Stay Clean flux, Older flux, probably banned now. The Stay Brite was 3-4% silver, not the 8%. Seemed to give good built up and hold. FWIW

kcopp

Tinning flux?

http://www.oatey.com/products/copper-installation/flux/no-95-tinning-flux

JUGHNE

This flux Is Stay Clean. contains zinc chloride....touts being lead free so it might not be that old. Claims to be good for brass to copper soft soldering with low temp Stay Brite silver bearing solder.
Harris part 40027.

Gordy

Dirty flux.

JUGHNE

Lead free brass issue?

Charlie from wmass

Very much doubt it is a lead free brass issue. If you know how to solder lead-free brass is not a problem.

Steve Minnich

If that were Tim, I'd slap him upside the head and tell him to get out of my way and don't make me show you how to do this again : )

Bob Bona_4

Bad flux. Throw out. Be sure fitting isn't cooked too.

ChrisJ

If you're melting the solder with the material being soldered and not the torch, and the solder is beading and not flowing it's a flux issue or the material is dirty. If you got the joint too hot you may have burned the flux.

It sounds like you cleaned everything good so I'd get new flux. Personally for soft soldering I like Climate Smooth by Hercules Chemical.

njtommy

Pull is apart and reclean it or replace fitting. Try number 8 bearing solder it's my favorite. Or even stay bright 45%.

keyote

its blue hercules flux and vitory 95/ 5 solder still hasnt given problem till now. so i did it a third retry and same damn thing flux goes off solder wont melt have to jamb the solder in the seam even with the fire right on it. i cant be too cold because it boils the solder its not too hot because i keep touching the joint as i heat it but it never flows. i took the pipe doen to copper again but the inside brass has a nice clean smooth tinn9ing after putting the brush in the drill then hand Emory and bushing generous flux again but not ridiculous to blow out the solder. anyway thhought maybe ide forced enough in as i went around and so cleaned it up and put 40lbs again a leak on backside instead of taking it entirely apart since it didnt have water i tried to just reheat and jamb more in. its held 40 lbs for a few minutes we shall see when it cools more, i have never ever seen this before its driving me nut it could nt be in a worse spot of course.

EBEBRATT-Ed

BAD FLUX. My company buys UTILITY which I don't like had a problem with it myself a few months ago.

I like NOKARODE made by Rectorseal. I prefer the tinning but there regular stuff is ok too. Silvabrite 100 solder.

Just my preference but it works for me.

Steve Minnich

Nokorode is the only flux I've used in the last 20 years. Staybrite #8 is the only solder I've used in the last 20 years.

Try practicing on a new joint in the pipe vise. If the same thing happens there, it's one of the many things suggested above. Bad flux is more common than you'd think. If mine starts to darken at all, I toss it. I'm leaning toward the joint not being hot enough.

Solid_Fuel_Man

Another vote for NOKARODE. It's all what we like and have had good luck with. I can still get 50/50 here in Maine for heating only of course.

Taylor

Charlie from wmass

Hate nocorode. Father made me use it. Hate the smell. Do not like the flow. I use utility flux. Been happy ever since I switched. No green hands at the end of the day either.

keyote

ill admit its some hardware store solder cause i ran out but i used half a roll no prob.in fact same torch same flux no probs.
its held 40 lbs for an hour ,well dropped a pound sinc ethe pipe cooled dont know whether to trust it or rip out half a dozen tight joints in the middle of manifol and buy all new parts, all this was to put in that lwco %$^&#, crazy thing isit held 40 lbs air when i first did it then when i started pumps when leak showed up.

Steve Minnich

I also use propane for soft solder and 3-4 different tips depending on the pipe size. Gotta control the heat.

Gordy

Are you sure pipe, and fitting are true to both planes level, plumb, and square?

ChrisJ

Perhaps the alloy was off in a length of the solder?

Gordy

Another tip. Don't be laying the flux brush, or sponge any old place......

Fred

One of my central air systems (Carrier) I installed three years ago had a similar problem when I had an HVAC friend come to braze the copper tubing to the brass valve on the outside condensing unit. He brazed everything up and all was fine, except for that one copper to brass connection. He took it apart, cleaned it up and re brazed it only to have it leak again. After about four tries, he concluded that there was likely some impurities in the brass valve. He made one last try and it finally held and has held for three years now. I do think some of the parts used/provided on some equipment and/or suppliers and made offshore may be suspect.

Bob Bona_4

I use Utility SOS too, Silvabrite 100.

keyote

Im going with Tijuana brass.
only time i ever saw something like this was either wet pipe or overheating a 1/2" joint burning the flux out its neither if it were not such a bad spot id have thrown it all away ages ago but i got like a joint every 3 " and about half a inch of pipe showing so id likely just be moving the problem down the line.
well the second to last was a pin hole and like i said i didnt take it apart i reheated it and jambed more solder all around and its holding 40 lbs even though it never really "flowed" maybe Ill just risk letting it stand and hope for the best i dont know hate things not right