Interesting TRV project

JohnNY

I'm installing thermostatic radiator valves (TRVs) in a tall building in Manhattan this week. The height of water exerts more pressure on the floors below the 23rd than can be tolerated by the standard valve bodies and so we're forced to use an industrial grade valve rated at 350 psi. The threaded connections are questionable at the lower floors and so we've resorted to using butt-weld tailpieces welded to schedule 80 nipples cut in half.
Pretty cool when I get to do non-standard stuff.
Fun fun fun!

Paul48

The weld on the left looks cracked.

JohnNY

It's not though.

hot_rod

around 100 psi, static pressure at the bottom of 23 stories? What type of heat emitters are they going on? Looks like a unique solution.

Gordy

How many of those do you have to make up

JohnNY

I have to make up 140 of them for this 45-story building.

Mad Dog_2

Nice Johnny. Is one of your boys doing the welding? Mad Dog

JohnNY

Hey, Matt. No, we've been sending them out. I don't want the liability. The welding company submits proof of insurance to the building and I'm good to go.

Gordy

curious John how the inside of the pipe at the weld looks?

JohnNY

The welder says he had to "chamfer" the nipples to make the butt-weld joint as strong as it ought to be. I don't really know the process but he x-rayed a few and he's happy. So are the building's engineers. Maybe I'll stick my little inspection camera in there and have a look though.

hot_rod

It looks like a stick weld?

Warno seems to have a knack for pipe welding, judging by the pics he has been posting. If you need a weld opinion he might weigh in.

warno

This thread was just brought to my attention so I thought I'd take a look.

Let start by saying the fact the reinforcement, the cap of the weld, had been ground off I can't really tell what method of welding was used, I want to say inexperienced TIG but again not real sure. Now grinding the cap of the weld is fine but when I started in my weld career a wise man told me there's only 2 reasons to grind a weld 1) you are going to add more to it or 2) it looks like s#!t. I really don't want to put anyone down here but these don't look good.

To say they past an xray I would really like to see the result sheet on that. Will they hold up to the test of time, probably. Will they look good doing it, no. Yes you would need to bevel (chamfer) the joint to get any kind of penetration but there's no need to grind the cap of after the finally pass. I'm guessing they did it to clear for that nut to slide over but with a pipe that small you aren't talking that much heat, there's no reason you couldn't leave the nut on the "valve side" of the joint then make the weld. If it were me and I had THAT many pieces to do I would prep 10 at a time and do a root in one after the other letting it cool while welding the next then go back and do the cover weld on each in the same fashion.

Sorry to beat it up so much but it bugs me to see stuff like this. If they pressure tested it to what ever over pressure was require and it held, then it's probably find. But if I opened a box to a pile of these going in my house I would curl my lip at each and every one.

Mad Dog_2

We can't do EVERYTHING, can we? Smart move Johnny. You're in there to GREEN the system, not DO all the hands on. Mad Dog

warno

I just talked to our QC/weld inspector at work and he agreed it would be rather hard to xray that weld joint. He also said that he thought it might have been stick weld, which is irrelevant I know but if anyone was curious that's what he said.

I would honestly ask for the xray result sheet though if the welder said they xrayed that joint. Unless it's not important to the customer then I guess it doesn't matter. But I know on some of our certified work there is potential for legal action if it's not done to spec or what we said we did.

nicholas bonham-carter

If this building had been heated by steam, there would not have been this problem!--NBC

Gordy

Mad Dog said:

We can't do EVERYTHING, can we? Smart move Johnny. You're in there to GREEN the system, not DO all the hands on. Mad Dog

I don't believe anyone is doing anything more than helping John install the best product possible. Warno is a certified welder, and a darn good one (see pics). I think his opinion, and the bar he sets has value.

JohnNY

Thank you for your opinion on the welding. This isn't a residential project. No one but no one one cares what the end product looks like here and the welds have been tested to meet the criteria set by the engineering firm that represents the building for the project. The engineers at Oventrop Germany have been in consult throughout and suggested the building engineers specify this particular modification to get their valves to work with our system. The NYC Oventrop group helped accommodate the acquisition of the butt-weld tailpieces with the full understanding of what was going on and, about 5 months ago, all parties were given a submittal of a physical sample of the completed product in anticipation of green-lighting their installation on half the hydronic branches of the 45-story building. The rest of the building will get off-the-shelf valves and threaded tailpieces. We just got our approval and we're going to go ahead with installing our portion of this building's 8-figure renovation.

Is any of that good? Waddayasay?

Harvey Ramer

Sounds like you have your bases covered.