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Uponor zone control module config help.

dedpossum
dedpossum Member Posts: 14
edited September 2016 in Radiant Heating
Good evening. I am having a bit of an issue with a new 3 zone set up. Here is what I have:

*Pic attached
1 - 24v transformer
1- Uponor zone control module
4 - 4 wire actuators
2 - 2 wire thermostat
1 - 3 wire thermostat with floor sensor
1 - single zone single pump relay.
Taco pump.

When I turn power on the pump starts running and never shuts of. The LEDs on the zone control module are solid red. I have cycled the thermostats and the yellow led turns on and off, but the pump doesn't shut down. I'm hoping this is something simple so I posted a picture of my installation, any help would be most appreciated.

Sincerely,

Ded

Comments

  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 6,475
    I can't see anything wrong from the pic as far as wiring, but you can't install that pump with the motor in the vertical position; it has to be horizontal.
    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
    Rich_49Roohollahdedpossum
  • Rich_49
    Rich_49 Member Posts: 2,603
    edited September 2016
    Pull all the red actuator wires off . All red lights should go out if there is not a problem with the ZCM . If this is the case , disconnect actuators from control module and power them all for 10 minutes till fully open . These actuators should be powered open prior to installation . Let us know how this works out . Uponor had some bad modules a few years back which had a REV AA on the top line , yours are not that model . Your Ad's have ben solid performers but there are never problems until there are problems .

    Turn that circulator so the motor is horizontal too , It cannot be vertical and down ever .
    You didn't get what you didn't pay for and it will never be what you thought it would .
    Langans Plumbing & Heating LLC
    732-751-1560
    Serving most of New Jersey, Eastern Pa .
    Consultation, Design & Installation anywhere
    Rich McGrath 732-581-3833
    dedpossum
  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 6,475
    I wonder if you removed the plastic retainer that holds the actuators open after you installed them?
    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
    dedpossum
  • dedpossum
    dedpossum Member Posts: 14
    Thanks for the help!

    Turning the pump now.
    I disconnected the actuators from the ZCM and the pump relay remained off, so that a good sign. So that must mean that the actuators are open.

    But how do I know if the relays are open or closed?
    They don't seem to have an indicator.


    Thanks,

    Ded
  • Rich_49
    Rich_49 Member Posts: 2,603
    the white actuators which you have will have a blue shaded ring around the plunger on top . When that tab is farther out and more blue is visible they are opened . Powering them for 10 minutes is more than sufficient
    You didn't get what you didn't pay for and it will never be what you thought it would .
    Langans Plumbing & Heating LLC
    732-751-1560
    Serving most of New Jersey, Eastern Pa .
    Consultation, Design & Installation anywhere
    Rich McGrath 732-581-3833
    dedpossum
  • dedpossum
    dedpossum Member Posts: 14
    I'm beginning to wonder if I perhaps did this backwards. The actuators are on the bottom manifold and the pump is pushing heated water into the top manifold.

    I powered them for over 10 minutes, but if there is no call for heat why are they open?
  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 6,475
    dedpossum said:

    I'm beginning to wonder if I perhaps did this backwards. The actuators are on the bottom manifold and the pump is pushing heated water into the top manifold.



    I powered them for over 10 minutes, but if there is no call for heat why are they open?

    The actuators go on the return manifold. But, unless you changed the direction of flow on the pump from what your first pic showed, your drawing out of the supply manifold, not pumping into it. That circ needs something more than pex supporting it. The same goes for the expansion tank: the romex hanger won't cut it.

    You may not want to hear this but...it looks like you're in over your head. You may wanna call a HYDRONICS pro.

    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • dedpossum
    dedpossum Member Posts: 14
    edited September 2016
    It's true I might be. Bit it doesn't seem that difficult. I have enough pipe fittings and pipe to reconfigure however necessary.

    Nothing is supported because I figured I'd have to change some stuff. I will create permanent supports as soon as it's up and running correctly.

    I am really appreciating the advice!


    Thanks,

    Ded
  • dedpossum
    dedpossum Member Posts: 14
    So ya, In in the second picture I posted I had already turned the pump around. That was just an error I knew that it was supposed to pump INTO the supply manifold. Which explained why I had so much pressure in the lines. Working on this has been like an episode of 3's company (i may be carbon dating myself here). The system is very small I'm only heating about 900 Sq feet. So I feel pretty confident with a bit more advise I can get through it!

    I did actually read ALL the instructions on ALL of the components but as you said I'm not a pro. The information that seems to be missing for me at least, is when do the freaking actuators actually close? as far as I can tell they are wide open, but as I said if the thermostats aren't calling for heat then why are they remaining open? Shouldn't they be closing at some point in time?


    Thanks in advance for the help.

    Ded.
  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 6,475
    It takes about 3 -5 minutes for the elements to cool off in the actuators so they can close.

    Remove one of the red wires to each actuator and it should close. If it does, then you've got a problem with the stat, its wiring or the board. The actuators need to be attached before you energize them.
    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
    dedpossum
  • Rich_49
    Rich_49 Member Posts: 2,603
    That cylinder on the top will be fully depressed and no blue around it will be showing when closed . When open that cylinder will rise and the blue will become more visible .
    You didn't get what you didn't pay for and it will never be what you thought it would .
    Langans Plumbing & Heating LLC
    732-751-1560
    Serving most of New Jersey, Eastern Pa .
    Consultation, Design & Installation anywhere
    Rich McGrath 732-581-3833
    dedpossum
  • dedpossum
    dedpossum Member Posts: 14
    Thanks guys. Ironman you stated that if I remove a red wire the actuator should close, but then you write "if it does, you have a problem. . . .". Did you mean does or doesn't? I'm going to try this out today!


    Thanks again for the info I am learning a lot.

    Ded
  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 6,475
    Does. The problem is elsewhere as stated.
    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
    dedpossum
  • dedpossum
    dedpossum Member Posts: 14
    Great news. It's all working exactly as it's supposed to. What i didn't understand was that I was supposed to call for heat for a full 10 minutes, then the actuators would reset. Once that was completed it worked great. I am ordering a vent/drain and one more back check valve and it should run like a top. The only thing I am regretting is the cast iron pump.
  • Rich_49
    Rich_49 Member Posts: 2,603
    What type circ would you prefer ? Is that a 007 ?
    You didn't get what you didn't pay for and it will never be what you thought it would .
    Langans Plumbing & Heating LLC
    732-751-1560
    Serving most of New Jersey, Eastern Pa .
    Consultation, Design & Installation anywhere
    Rich McGrath 732-581-3833
    dedpossum
  • dedpossum
    dedpossum Member Posts: 14
    edited September 2016
    I am so close to having this system I can taste it. In a previous post I posted a picture of my pump pointing in what I think to be the right direction. I have drawn my system and posted as well. Though the arrow on the Taco 007 with IFC is pointing towards the supply manifold I am experiencing a huge back pressure on the return manifold when the system runs, which isn't allowing the plunger on the actuated valve to open. Which in turn prevents circulation, so no heat.


    What have I missed?

    Your advice is most appreciated!


    Sincerely,

    Ded
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 14,879
    I'm pretty sure the pump in you very first pic is pumping from right to left. The bulge on the bottom should be the suction.

    If so you are pumping away from the manifold and towards the exp tank?

    But your drawing shows the flow arrow going right. Check the flow arrow on them pump body again.

    Right track wrong direction?


    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    dedpossum
  • dedpossum
    dedpossum Member Posts: 14
    The drawing is the correct set up. The first picture I posted is incorrect. I even removed the pump and blew through it to make sure, as the IFC will only let air move in one direction.

    My thought is that pressure is some how building behind the pump and running back to the return manifold.
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 14,879
    If in fact the impeller is spinning, in water not air, there will be a pressure increase on the discharge side, when pumping away from the expansion tank. A pressure gauge at the discharge would indicate that. Centrifugal force at work.

    If you are not seeing flow, after the ZVs open, most often you have an airlock some where or valve(s) shut off.

    Does that manifold have shutoffs under the black plastic caps? Some brands have balance valves on one of the manifolds. Could be closed or shut way down?


    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    dedpossum
  • dedpossum
    dedpossum Member Posts: 14
    Good morning. My adventure in hydronic has become an epic. If I get this thing working I shall regal future generations with my tales battle with this system.

    For giggles I used all the manual valve operators and isolated each loop. I turned my heat source on my pump off and used pressure from the street to drive each loop. I vented the water at the return into a drain. Each loop performed perfectly.

    I also installed a back flow preventer between the boiler and the Taco 007. Bit alas once I turn the pump on, no flow and the return manifold gets pressure locked.

    I am so very puzzled.

    Any ideas?
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 14,879
    How do you know there is no flow? The pipes will not get warm instantly if you are going by supply and return temperature?

    I'm not sure what you are describing by "pressure locked" not a hydronic term I'm familiar with?

    If line pressure moved all the air out and it runs clear and bubble free, you don't generally have an air problem.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    dedpossum
  • dedpossum
    dedpossum Member Posts: 14
    I think I just made that term up.

    I know there is no flow because the boiler has a flow sensor that kicks the elements on when water start moving. I have checked this with the most miniscule amount of flow.

    Second. When I attempt to open the 5th port on the return manifold, it will not open. If I remove the hose and push up on the rubber plunger I get a massive exhaust of water. Far more pressure than I ever let into the system.

    It's the darnedest thing.
  • Tim Potter
    Tim Potter Member Posts: 272
    In your sketch a few posts back, do I see the PRV in line with the return water? If so, that's not correct, & would explain the above post because the return side is at street water pressure
    Winter Park, CO & Lenexa, KS
    dedpossum
  • dedpossum
    dedpossum Member Posts: 14
    Tim thanks! Once the system has been purged of air I shut the supply off. So that I'm not pushing against the street. Do you think the 15 lb prv is inhibiting the pump?

    I'll bi pass the prv today.

    Thanks again!
  • Tim Potter
    Tim Potter Member Posts: 272
    yup, the PTV will stop the flow, let's get the PRV in the right spot, then let her rip. leave the supply water on for a couple of weeks to get ALL the air out. The 12 lbs pressure in the radiant system won't "push against the street". Send a clear, well lit pic of the whole system after you move the PRV.
    Winter Park, CO & Lenexa, KS
    dedpossum
  • dedpossum
    dedpossum Member Posts: 14
    That was it.... Nice catch Tim! What an amazing puzzle this was. Thank you very much! I was loosing my mind for about three days. The prv has an override rod, I just engaged it and let the system rip. I have the flow and everything is doing its job.

    I really want to thank all involved in this thread. I feel like this little project and the input from the professionals here have increased my capacity!

    Now all I have to do is add the proper supports....

    I'll post a picture of the final product in a couple days.

    Thanks,

    Ded
  • Rich_49
    Rich_49 Member Posts: 2,603
    Did you move that PRV out of your heating loop Ded ? Between the return Tee and the BFP would be a good place
    You didn't get what you didn't pay for and it will never be what you thought it would .
    Langans Plumbing & Heating LLC
    732-751-1560
    Serving most of New Jersey, Eastern Pa .
    Consultation, Design & Installation anywhere
    Rich McGrath 732-581-3833
  • dedpossum
    dedpossum Member Posts: 14
    That is exactly where I put it. Right after the main shut off but before the return.

    I am so incredibly happy with this system. So quiet and the heat is simply awesome.