New from the makers of the 250 MPG carburetor!

nicholas bonham-carter

From the weekly HH newsletter:

http://eandt.theiet.org/news/2016/aug/energy-efficient-water-heater.cfm

Am I missing something here with their claims of more than 100% efficiency?--NBC

ChrisJ

nicholas bonham-carter said:

From the weekly HH newsletter:

http://eandt.theiet.org/news/2016/aug/energy-efficient-water-heater.cfm

Am I missing something here with their claims of more than 100% efficiency?--NBC

Think of how a heat pump behaves.
Problem is, how are they going to pull off such high combustion efficiency?

Also, will these results only be achieved in a laboratory like most things and then drop off greatly in the real world?

Then there's the classic "It'll save you $30 in natural gas throughout it's life but it costs $500 more to buy".

nicholas bonham-carter

I can't see how efficiency can be more than 100%-NBC

ChrisJ

nicholas bonham-carter said:

I can't see how efficiency can be more than 100%-NBC

A heat pump is considered more than 100% efficient because it produces more heat than a purely restive heater would with the same input.

Abracadabra

ChrisJ said:

nicholas bonham-carter said:

I can't see how efficiency can be more than 100%-NBC

A heat pump is considered more than 100% efficient because it produces more heat than a purely restive heater would with the same input.

I see what you're saying @ChrisJ but the truth is you can't create energy from nothing. I think @nicholas bonham-carter is trying to say that the efficiency number given doesn't make sense though. If that was the case we'd all have perpetual motion machines. They need to compare apples to apples and not heat pumps to resistive heaters.

ChrisJ

Abracadabra said:

ChrisJ said:

nicholas bonham-carter said:

I can't see how efficiency can be more than 100%-NBC

A heat pump is considered more than 100% efficient because it produces more heat than a purely restive heater would with the same input.

I see what you're saying @ChrisJ but the truth is you can't create energy from nothing. I think @nicholas bonham-carter is trying to say that the efficiency number given doesn't make sense though. If that was the case we'd all have perpetual motion machines. They need to compare apples to apples and not heat pumps to resistive heaters.

Oh, I know that.
Just explaining how they came up with it.

I suspect somewhere in there is an explanation of a 6HP shop vac that consumes 1HP worth of power.

BobC

My table saw has a 1.5HP motor on it, it has to weigh at least 40 pounds.

Those 6Hp rated vacs will create 6HP of smoke if you try and use them for too long a stretch.

Bob

ratio

Perpetual motion is a solved problem.

JUGHNE

I did read somewhere that that magic 6 HP rating comes from the energy used by that motor just before it burns up/smoke release. We all know you would never carry a real 6 HP motor around on top of a plastic shop vac cleaner. A real 1 HP motor could break your foot if dropped. It is all in how you crunch the numbers, cook the books etc.
Any heat pump can achieve more than 100% efficiency.....but it is milking energy from the air or liquid media that is the "cow".
The cow will eventually get thinner or leaner......depends if it is in your basement or outside your house. If outside, it does get fed with solar gain to air or ground water.
Many years ago there was a contractor who advertised "Solar heating installation" when I inquired about this he said he installed air-air heat pumps......well it was really a fact wasn't it?
(I don't think those Carter energy credits of the 1970's would apply to those installations though.)

SWEI

There's nothing being created out of nothing in a heat pump. In classical terms, it's really just a well-placed lever.

Abracadabra

ratio said:

Perpetual motion is a solved problem.

lol @ratio I had to look at that a couple of times to figure it out... good one!