The Longest Pipe

tgbrew

I have a 1.25" return pipe that is more than 24' long. It is blowing my mind. I seriously had to look at the thing like five times to make sure I wasn't missing a coupling somehow. I need to put a tee into it and don't see a way around replacing the whole thing. Threading the ancient pipe in place doesn't seem viable. Any thoughts? And do people run into pipes like this very often?

adambnyc

You could thread in place with a pony, like a ridgid 700. Still gonna be a pain. The rental of the ridgid 700 plus the die head and the support arm probably gonna cost more than just replacing it.

Larry Weingarten

Hello: I don't claim to know steam, (is it steam?) but would a dresser coupling hold up in this service? If so, that would make it a relatively easy job.

Yours, Larry

Steamhead

Larry Weingarten said:

Hello: I don't claim to know steam, (is it steam?) but would a dresser coupling hold up in this service? If so, that would make it a relatively easy job.

Yours, Larry

No. Every single Dresser coupling I've seen on a steam system has leaked.

TGbrew, what are you trying to hook up to this pipe? Does the pipe run above the boiler's waterline, or below it?

tgbrew

Interesting. It is a wet return on a single pipe steam system in my house. So it holds water. I'm adding a second main and tying into the existing return so I need a tee pointed upward.

Steamhead

I wouldn't even try to attach anything to an old wet return like that. I'd bet it's at least partially filled with sludge, and the walls of the pipe have deteriorated- best bet is to replace it. This is the one place in a steam system where I wouldn't have a problem using copper.

Jamie Hall

If my experience is any guide, when you start playing with that pipe it's going to start leaking like a sieve. It won't take much longer to replace the whole thing -- use copper, as @Steamhead said.

KC_Jones

I will add my vote for copper wet returns. I have only worked on my system, but on the old steel/cast returns if you opened the valve on the wet return at any time you got black coffee on a good day. On a bad day you got chunks. With my copper wet returns it looks like drinking water all the time. It is truly amazing the difference.

tgbrew

This definitely isn't the answer I expected. When I redid my near boiler piping i went with all steel. Copper is easier to work with for sure, but isn't the price an issue? Also, I'm not really interested in replacing the entire return so this would only be one section? You would use 1.25" copper to replace the line? Lastly, are we concerned about a reaction from unlike metals at all the steel connections?

Jamie Hall

tgbrew said:

This definitely isn't the answer I expected. When I redid my near boiler piping i went with all steel. Copper is easier to work with for sure, but isn't the price an issue? Also, I'm not really interested in replacing the entire return so this would only be one section? You would use 1.25" copper to replace the line? Lastly, are we concerned about a reaction from unlike metals at all the steel connections?

All black iron above the water line. Copper is fine below the water line, and yes you can replace size for size with no problems there. You can just replace the one section -- but you may find that you want to replace more of it... drip... drip... drip.

Did you use steel or black iron? Steel might give you a corrosion problem. Black iron won't. But I've not seen anything major, and the building I care for has several places where galvanized steel joins copper (in the domestic water lines). I does corrode, but not that badly or that fast.

JUGHNE

Jamie, the terms "steel" or "black iron".......by steel I assume you mean galvanized steel pipe......is not black iron simply steel pipe that is not galvanized? I have seen these labels applied to pipe several times here and have pondered the difference.

Black pipe and galv pipe are the only options available here. I would only use galv nipples just to get rid of any stock on the shelf....(they all would have come from sell out auctions).

Jamie Hall

No. Steel is steel, and has a very different alloy composition from black iron (less carbon and, usually other metals). True, the base metal for both of them is iron -- but that's the end of it. Steel rusts and keeps on going. Black iron will get surface rust, but rarely will it develop much more than that (the exception is in contact with some concretes or lime mortars, or high chloride concentrations -- then all bets are off).

Steel is a lot stronger, and much more fracture resistant and the tensile strength is far higher than black iron.

Black iron is also sometimes referred to as malleable iron and, up to a point it is -- certainly much more so than cast iron, but the differences are in how the iron is heat treated, not in the chemistry.

SWEI

AFAIK what we use here is A53 steel pipe with malleable iron fittings.

bob_46

Jamie I think you are thinking of wrought iron pipe, they don't make it anymore.

Jamie Hall

bob said:

Jamie I think you are thinking of wrought iron pipe, they don't make it anymore.

Which makes me an antique. But I knew that already sigh...

tgbrew

The pipe is black pipe - still worth replacing with copper? It sound like deterioration is minimal. I just wonder if the cost difference is really worth it? The system has been running for many decades with these pipes.

Fred

Black pipe is perfectly fine for wet returns. I think others were just offering you an alternative.

Steamhead

tgbrew said:

The pipe is black pipe - still worth replacing with copper? It sound like deterioration is minimal. I just wonder if the cost difference is really worth it? The system has been running for many decades with these pipes.

The short answer is- it depends. Don't be surprised if you end up completely replacing it.

Rich_49

tgbrew said:

This definitely isn't the answer I expected. When I redid my near boiler piping i went with all steel. Copper is easier to work with for sure, but isn't the price an issue? Also, I'm not really interested in replacing the entire return so this would only be one section? You would use 1.25" copper to replace the line? Lastly, are we concerned about a reaction from unlike metals at all the steel connections?

Price is only an issue in the absence of value

ChrisJ

Rich said:

tgbrew said:

This definitely isn't the answer I expected. When I redid my near boiler piping i went with all steel. Copper is easier to work with for sure, but isn't the price an issue? Also, I'm not really interested in replacing the entire return so this would only be one section? You would use 1.25" copper to replace the line? Lastly, are we concerned about a reaction from unlike metals at all the steel connections?

Price is only an issue in the absence of value

Price is more often an issue in absence of capital.

Fred

@STEAM DOCTOR , what is off topic about my comment, above?:

Fred said:

Black pipe is perfectly fine for wet returns. I think others were just offering you an alternative.

STEAM DOCTOR

@Fred. Not quite sure what you are referring too. Don't think that I commented on this thread.

STEAM DOCTOR

Oops. Looks like I hit "off topic" by mistake. Will try to undo.

STEAM DOCTOR

Done (I think). Once I am here, I would personally replace with copper. Not saying that black pipe is a bad option.

JUGHNE

24' long...really? Most I have seen is the standard 21' lengths.
Might there be a really thin coupling hiding somewhere there?
If so cutting the short piece in the middle and unscrewing the pieces would give you a shot to not to have to thread in place.
Also tell you the life left in the pipe. My luck has been that the pipe will egg shape at the fitting and wedge the threads. So what has worked is to cut the stub to about 3" and jam a smaller pipe into it to keep it round. Then maybe it would unscrew after the usual attacks with PB, hammering and eventually the torch. FWIW.

Abracadabra

Speaking from experience, trying to screw in a 21' length of 2" pipe into an existing fitting is not the easiest thing in the world. It's one thing to spin on a 2" fitting onto a 21" length that's already in place. It's entirely another thing altogether to try and spin on a 21' length of pipe onto an existing fitting. Recently did a 2.5" return and figured I'd save myself some threading and put in a single piece. Quickly gave up and cut it into two pieces, threaded it and used a coupling.

JUGHNE

If he does have a coupling available my idea was to remove the short section leaving the 21' piece in place.
Add a union and tee as needed for the new return.