What type of *valve* is this?

PaulHanley

Is this the stuff that Sailah offers:

http://barnesandjones.com/resource/

It seemed like the main vent was operating properly, it's a Gorton #1. Perhaps I'll just pull it and stick a new one in there.

Yes, you're right, one pipe system, but there are two pipes out of the boiler. One towards the top, another in the lower portion near the drainout. They essentially meet at the junction in my original pictures, so I suppose I was incorrectly naming anything a supply or return, since each of them is most likely serving as both.

Fred

This is the Barnes and Jones Big Mouth vent. Each vent is equal to about two of the Gorton #2's and about 5 or 6 of the Gorton #1's. https://www.amazon.com/Barnes-Jones-Big-Mouth-Vent/dp/B01F26P13C/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1471727392&sr=8-1&keywords=Big+Mouth+vent

Not sure I fully understand what you are describing about your pipe. More pictures, from further back would help a lot.

PaulHanley

Thanks Fred, but holy moly, that one isn't cheap now is it?

I'll try to get a few more photos up, but I think you got it right. One pipe system , two pipes out of the boiler though. Those two pipes meet at the junction which is leaking and has a gate valve on it. I should probably get some insulation on some of these pipes as well. Grrrr...

Fred

PaulHanley said:

Thanks Fred, but holy moly, that one isn't cheap now is it?

I'll try to get a few more photos up, but I think you got it right. One pipe system , two pipes out of the boiler though. Those two pipes meet at the junction which is leaking and has a gate valve on it. I should probably get some insulation on some of these pipes as well. Grrrr...

It's less costly than a Gorton #2 and you get double the venting capacity. For the capacity and construction, it really is a bargain. How long is your main(s) ? You need to vent them properly and unless they are very, very short, a Gorton #1 won't do the job. I bought 5 of them a few months ago and just replaced my Hoffman vents a week or two ago. Getting ready for this heating season.
When you say two pipes out of the boiler, do you mean two risers out of the top of the boiler? Are those two pipes tied into a header and then this leaking pipe comes off of that header? Doesn't look that way from the pics. looks like that leaking joint area is off of a main.

Steamhead

PaulHanley said:

Yes, you're right, one pipe system, but there are two pipes out of the boiler. One towards the top, another in the lower portion near the drainout. They essentially meet at the junction in my original pictures, so I suppose I was incorrectly naming anything a supply or return, since each of them is most likely serving as both.

The larger pipe coming off the top of the boiler is the steam main. All the radiators should connect to this.

The smaller pipe from the lower connection to the boiler is the return line. Since it is smaller, it may not be able to carry enough steam to feed a radiator.

PaulHanley said:

It seemed like the main vent was operating properly, it's a Gorton #1. Perhaps I'll just pull it and stick a new one in there.

How long is the steam main from the boiler to the vent, and what pipe size is it?

PaulHanley

That's what I had assumed, but I started to think that there's no such thing as a return in a one pipe system.

The "return" is where the vent sits. That pipe exits the boiler using a 1.25" pipe, which couples to a larger 1.5" about 10' from origin. From the boiler, it drops down from the middle, rides the floor for about 12ft, then rises to the ceiling. The vent on it is about 20' from the boiler.

Given that this "return" line drops down from the boiler, I suppose that it's somehow using capillary attraction to get the condensate back up to the tank?

nicholas bonham-carter

One pipe parallel systems exit the header at the top of the boiler, and then slope down away from the boiler. The point at which the dry return drops down to the wet return at floor level is where the main vents should be.
The wet return, although lower than the lower boiler port has no problem with returning condensate to the boiler, (think of a Ferris wheel). The weight of the water coming down has no problem in pushing the water in the wet return back up a foot or so into the boiler.
The main vents must be capacious enough to allow the air in the pipes to escape quickly, with little resistance, (back pressure), during each firing cycle. A smaller vent will allow the radiators closest in line to the boiler to fill first, leaving further radiators to fill only at the end of the firing cycle, instead of all radiators filling at the same time. This simultaneous steam arrival is especially important during mildly cold days, when the firing cycles are of shorter duration.
Post a picture of your piping layout.--NBC

PaulHanley

Ok, I know I still owe you another photo or two. However, I've received and installed the Barnes and Jones Big Mouth. In regards to this valve, which is indeed impressive, do I need a second piece to screw into the female threads on this?

ChrisJ

PaulHanley said:

Ok, I know I still owe you another photo or two. However, I've received and installed the Barnes and Jones Big Mouth. In regards to this valve, which is indeed impressive, do I need a second piece to screw into the female threads on this?

Nope.
As long as it's mounted vertical with the female threads horizontal, you're good to go.

Those are there because it's a modified steam trap, they are used in other applications.

PaulHanley

Excellent, tks. That' s exactly how it's installed. I'm pretty psyched to start this bad boy up in a few weeks!

Fred

I'm anxious to fire mine up too. These Big Mouth vents are the result of a lot of discussions here on Heating help and have only been on the market since this summer. They were designed and Tested by @Sailah , who is a representative of Barnes and Jones and contributes frequently to discussions on this site, especially those related to venting and traps.

PaulHanley

Well then, I'm proud to be on the early adopter committee!

Sailah

As noted Paul it does not need anything on the female threads. It started its life as a Mepco 2E trap that we then modified extensively to maximize its venting capacity. Was the only reasonable way to get an inexpensive body to design the vent with.

Very interested to hear the reports back on the Big Mouth, it was a great collaboration between a lot of forum members and I hope it lives up to the anticipation.

PaulHanley

Hey guys, just an update. So, I replaced the gate valve with a 3" section of threaded pipe with a threaded cap on the end, and replaced my Gorton #1 with the Big Mouth. I fired up the system today because the Mrs. was chilly. I was happy to accommodate since I was eagerly anticipating the outcome, and everything worked perfectly. No leaks from the patch job replacement pipes in the leaky area, and the BM seemed to operate as expected. \

However, I now have to re-balance slightly. The dining room vent is going to get a Gorton #4 since that's where the thermostat is. Then, we shall see how things operate. If that junction begins to leak, I'll simply replace the entire junction as suggested. If not, my oddball contraption stays, and will operate forever more.

If anything changes, I'll post an update, but so far, thanks to everyone for the great ideas and recommendations!

Regards,
Paul