Rise in condensate piping

KCA_2

Hi all....
I ran into this boiler room yesterday. I'm much better with with hot water heat than I am with steam so I'm hoping you can answer this question.
The vats have coils in them, the coil is in the bottom of this Vat and is fed by steam. The condensate goes out the bottom of the coil, the bottom of the VAT, and goes horizontal for about two or 3 feet and then jumps up approximately 2 feet to tie into the condensate return. My concern is that that condensate gets trapped or is this OK?
Thanks

nicholas bonham-carter

I would say that the condensate would stop the air getting out, to make room for the steam coming in.--NBC

Jamie Hall

An interesting arrangement, and there may be more to the story... As NBC noted, can air get out when the system starts? And if so, how? Also, what is the relative pressure of the steam to wherever the condensate goes? If there is enough pressure difference, the steam will push the condensate up that distance quite happily (that's only about 1 psi).

Need to know more about the whole setup.

KCA_2

Thank you for getting back to me guys !
From the picture that's basically all that I would think you need to see. They have the boiler set at about 11 psi and that's what it's running at a little too high I would think. The condensate has to run uphill about tuna half feet in order run into condensate man that dumps into condensate tank. The steam pressure is at 11 psi. Maybe that's why they have the steam pressure up so high to kind of push the condensate through . The brewer tells me it works . But when I drop the steam pressure down to two psi will it still work? I guess I don't understand how it works at all

Jamie Hall

The 2 psi should be enough to get your condensate up the 30 inches or so, since I assume that the condensate tank is vented - most of them are. I'm still a little concerned about how air gets out of the system in the first place. Also, if you have 11 psi going into that coil, it should just blow right through, unless there is a trap of some kind. I think I'm missing something here...

bob_46

is there a modulating valve on the supply? is that a trap ahead of the ball valve in the photo?

Sailah

I went to a distillery in Boston last year that was using a motive pump to push condensate up quite high. His symptoms were a struggle to reach temps on his second batch of the day. He was always struggling to reach temp quickly. When he put on a dump valve on the trap outlet the kettle would heat up very quickly confirming our suspicions that the steam powered pump couldn't get rid of the condensate fast enough dUE to pressure. The only solution we could come up with was to run the pump off air compressor.

I would think with a bucket trap you are already fighting a venting battle unless he's running constantly. 11psi should easily push that distance though.

Sailah

Try this, replace trap with an F&T and drip a batch run to the floor when everything is cold first run of day. Yes I know it's wasteful. See how fast his kettle warms up compared to how he's doing it now. Time the kettle to temp.

Often when I talk to customers using steam to make money vs heat, it's more important for the steam to do its job fast because that's what pays the bills.

Then see if you can get away with lower boiler pressure and a small condensate pump.

He says it works though. Ask him what he wants to gain?

KCA_2

Thanks everyone for your insight.... I'll keep you informed

mattS

Hello @KCA_2
What was the outcome?