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Heating for the future.

2

Comments

  • Rich_49
    Rich_49 Member Posts: 2,565
    No need to obfuscate again.

    The statement was simply that the utility did NOT and would NOT pay for any excess power provided by the PV system. This was shown to be factually incorrect. They do pay for excess but only at the rate that it actually costs them to generate it.

    I really don't GAS about what "everybody in many groups are touting".

    Please tell me Juliett Oscar , what I am obfuscating about . Fortunately for the ENTIRE world nobody GsAS about what HatterasGuy thinks about this subject and those many groups have a very big voice without too much reasoning ability and thought that the big giant utility would like nothing better than to have a monopoly . Could anyone tell us all why monopolies were frowned upon in the last century or why it was a crime to almost corner the silver market ?

    When the whole grid tied scheme was first introduced to folks there were SRECs in which they got paid for what they added . That was slowly whittled away to introduce a new scheme . Don't forget they were mandated to produce x amount by Y date and they did not want to build any infrastructure so they asked to use your roof . There will be no money for you Mr homeowner but could we now rent your roof and give you stuff for free but never really compensate you . Did we mention that after 10 years the maintenance and such is all your responsibility ?

    http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/arizona-solar-fights-on

    http://legal-planet.org/2013/12/09/a-solar-energy-fight-in-arizona/

    http://puc.nv.gov/Renewable_Energy/Renewable_Programs/Solar_Energy/

    This one is good , https://cleantechnica.com/2016/02/08/nevadas-solar-net-metering-fight-gets-personal/

    The game and it's intricacies are much more than you are aware of . Gordy , Koch Bros . , interesting huh ?
    You didn't get what you didn't pay for and it will never be what you thought it would .
    Langans Plumbing & Heating LLC
    732-751-1560
    Serving most of New Jersey, Eastern Pa .
    Consultation, Design & Installation anywhere
    Rich McGrath 732-581-3833
  • Gordy
    Gordy Member Posts: 9,514
    That's what I meant about the plot...
  • GreenGene
    GreenGene Member Posts: 290
    edited June 2016
    Just to add a little knowledge to the mix I've had Rad Worker Training to work at a nuke plant, what I learned in the week long course blew me away.

    Nuke plants are 10% efficient.

    When the uranium rods are brand new they are at 100%, they're hot enough to make super super heated radioactive steam that will go through a heat x to make super heated steam to spin the turbine, the heat x protects most components from the radiation.

    When the rods have used 10% they are no longer hot enough to do the job and are placed in a "spent fuel pool" of water where, again thanks to them writing the laws, we US taxpayers have to baby sit them for a minimum of 300 years.

    While it is true that nuke plants save on burning fossil fuel, they are far from clean and far from efficient.

    They should be a back up, all power plants should be a back up, we should be running mainly on solar, tidal, wind, power.
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 11,567
    edited June 2016
    GreenGene said:

    Just to add a little knowledge to the mix I've had Rad Worker Training to work at a nuke plant, what I learned in the week long course blew me away.

    Nuke plants are 10% efficient.

    When the uranium rods are brand new they are at 100%, they're hot enough to make super super heated radioactive steam that will go through a heat x to make super heated steam to spin the turbine, the heat x protects most components from the radiation.

    When the rods have used 10% they are no longer hot enough to do the job and are placed in a "spent fuel pool" of water where, again thanks to them writing the laws, we US taxpayers have to baby sit them for a minimum of 300 years.

    While it is true that nuke plants save on burning fossil fuel, they are far from clean and far from efficient.

    They should be a back up, all power plants should be a back up, we should be running mainly on solar, tidal, wind, power.

    Not knowing much about it, it's hard for me to comment, but something seems really really wrong about what you typed. It just reminds me of people claiming AR-15 means assault rifle 15 for some reason. Maybe you're 100% right, it just seems, off to me.

    So, the rods are "spent" when they're down to 90%? So they can only use 10% of the rod?

    The 10% efficient number also seems grossly inaccurate. I would've thought something more like 40%.

    You either have super heated steam, or you don't. Super super heated doesn't exist, and it needs to be super heated to keep all water out of the turbines. This goes for natural gas, coal, or any turbine driven generator.

    Perhaps someone that knows more about nukes can chime in.

    @BobC ??

    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • GreenGene
    GreenGene Member Posts: 290
    edited June 2016
    You have to remember with nukes you have to make it twice because you can't go directly to the turbines with the steam due to the radioactivity.

    I can also tell you that they are grossly mismanaged and extremely dangerous, we have all been rained on, Millstone plant in Ct has rained on Long Island countless times, several are also leaking into the ground water.

    I was at the sub base in Groton when the alarms went off there and at Electric Boat, everybody was scrambling trying to find the nuke leak or source, it was Millstone raining on us.
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 11,567
    Better start working on Mr Fusion then.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • GreenGene
    GreenGene Member Posts: 290
    The mis management at Millstone is well documented for decades, they have had "issues" with their radioactive monitors which seem to malfunction and indicate normal levels when they have a release, by law they are supposed to notify the public and by tracking the wind have a suspected area evacuated, of course that would be bad press and stockholders might not like it.

    This is an account of a recent event:

    3 Months Later They Admit: We Got Dosed During the May 25 Emergency Double Nuclear Shutdown

    When Millstone Units 2 and 3 went into simultaneous emergency shutdown on May 25, 2014, Dominion told the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission that its onsite radiation monitors: “are indicating normal levels.”

    At the same time, when Dominion had declared an emergency with the sudden loss of offsite power, the NRC’s Public Affairs officer Neil Sheehan assured Connecticut news media: “[A]All safety systems functioned as designed and . . . there were no health or safety issues to the public as a result.”

    The event – once again bringing Millstone and Connecticut to the brink of nuclear disaster – was so serious that the NRC began a special inspection.

    Now, three months later, the NRC has released its special inspection report, finding Dominion committed a “white” level – second on a scale of four – violation of federal regulations which led to the shutdowns and complications which kept Unit 3 shut for 10 days. Unit 2 was allowed to restart 4 days after the event. Under NRC rules, Millstone will likely be put under additional NRC oversight for a year or more.

    Buried in the August 28, 2014 inspection report, and unreported by the news media, is the previously withheld information that cascading equipment errors led to “unexpected” radioactive gaseous releases through the reactor’s ventilation system and elsewhere at Unit 3.

    Unexpected releases of cancer-causing radioisotopes into the air we breathe are a matter of health and safety. We were misled by Dominion and the NRC, once again.

    The NRC did not reveal the quantity of radioactive gases released nor identify the radioisotopes. The NRC said the information will not be made available to the public until Dominion releases its annual radioactive effluents report next April, nearly a year after the event.
  • BobC
    BobC Member Posts: 5,190
    edited June 2016
    @ChrisJ Boiling water nuclear plants can use less than 5% of the fuel before it has to be replaced, the rest is highly radioactive nuclear waste that they store (for tens of thousands of years). It can be used for nuclear weapons and that was one of the reasons Nixon put the kabosh on liquid salt reactor research. we really needed more nuclear weapons (How many is enough?). They use up 95% of the nuclear fuel leaving less than 5% as nuclear waste which cannot be used to build bombs.

    If you build a Thorium fueled liquid salt reactor it can burn the waste from boiling water reactors as fuel, the waste stays radioactive for about 300 years.

    The electrical efficiency is near 40% as it is for most steam turbines, there are designs that get it into the high 40's but nobody has built one yet. Industry tends to stick with what works and governments have spent all their money going to war with each other. Waste heat can be used for desalinization and other industrial applications.

    Like it or lump it we need base generating capacity to replace aging boiling water nuke plants and a Thorium based plant is about as green as anything gets. Fusion would be great but I don't think we will see it in our lifetimes.

    Bob
    Smith G8-3 with EZ Gas @ 90,000 BTU, Single pipe steam
    Vaporstat with a 12oz cut-out and 4oz cut-in
    3PSI gauge
    Rich_49
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 11,567
    Interesting.
    And how much energy is 5% of the fuel?
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 14,786
    It's all over the map on these programs. I just returned from the MREA Midwest Renewable Energy show in WI. The P.E. in the booth next to me hailed from MN. Claims he pays .04 per KW and gets credited .11 for his feed in!

    A large installer I met from CA puts PV on the roof for $3.00/ KW, closer to $5 for small residential! It wasn't all that long ago the 10 bucks a watt just for the modules. These were a couple standouts, but PV continues to grow in most areas. As expected mostly positive feedback at this show, but a watchfull eye and participation on the lawmakers and lobbyists. The rules, good or bad are forged by the lobby groups more so than the individual politician. Of course many lobbiests are ex, or failed politicians.

    One possible for the future of homes and building is they heat themselves with internal gains, appliances, etc.

    ECM motors will be mandated on every device from fans to pups. Pump ECM energy savings potential is claimed to be up to 1/3 of all energy consumed worldwide.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • GreenGene
    GreenGene Member Posts: 290
    ChrisJ said:

    Interesting.
    And how much energy is 5% of the fuel?

    That's where it gets murky, because yes, by using nukes we are saving a lot of fossil fuels, BUT, even though we are also saving on the air pollution we are adding tons of toxic and radioactive waste to our environment and when you are talking about something that will be toxic and radioactive for well over 300 years it's way beyond the here and now, there are prices that will have to be paid by people of this Earth for a long time for a short term profit for a few.........that's what has to be weighed.

    The Japan disaster is being covered big time, half of the fish in the Pacific got dosed, do we have any radioactive tests at the fish processing plants?

    We're getting hit left to right, and forget oysters and clams, they just caught a guy taking oysters from a bed outside a sewer treatment plant in Ct.

    http://www.courant.com/hc-oyster-bed-shut-down-20160610-story.html
    Rich_49
  • GreenGene
    GreenGene Member Posts: 290
    don't get me going on the radioactive military vessels other nations like Russia simply abandon
  • Paul48
    Paul48 Member Posts: 4,470
    @hot rod

    "A large installer I met from CA puts PV on the roof for $3.00/ KW, closer to $5 for small residential"!

    What does that mean? Panels are still, roughly $1 a watt, and twice that to run micro-inverters. Batteries for a residential system are going to run you $200-$250 each. The sky's the limit on charge controllers and inverters. To a certain extent, you get what you pay for, with those. I don't understand the statement.
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 11,567
    GreenGene said:

    ChrisJ said:

    Interesting.
    And how much energy is 5% of the fuel?

    That's where it gets murky, because yes, by using nukes we are saving a lot of fossil fuels, BUT, even though we are also saving on the air pollution we are adding tons of toxic and radioactive waste to our environment and when you are talking about something that will be toxic and radioactive for well over 300 years it's way beyond the here and now, there are prices that will have to be paid by people of this Earth for a long time for a short term profit for a few.........that's what has to be weighed.

    The Japan disaster is being covered big time, half of the fish in the Pacific got dosed, do we have any radioactive tests at the fish processing plants?

    We're getting hit left to right, and forget oysters and clams, they just caught a guy taking oysters from a bed outside a sewer treatment plant in Ct.

    http://www.courant.com/hc-oyster-bed-shut-down-20160610-story.html
    Where does the 300 year number come from?
    Uranium has a half life of 4.5 billion years.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • Paul48
    Paul48 Member Posts: 4,470
    We're like children playing with fire, when it comes to nuclear. The price we're paying to learn, is way too high.
  • Rich_49
    Rich_49 Member Posts: 2,565
    GreenGene said:

    ChrisJ said:

    Interesting.
    And how much energy is 5% of the fuel?

    That's where it gets murky, because yes, by using nukes we are saving a lot of fossil fuels, BUT, even though we are also saving on the air pollution we are adding tons of toxic and radioactive waste to our environment and when you are talking about something that will be toxic and radioactive for well over 300 years it's way beyond the here and now, there are prices that will have to be paid by people of this Earth for a long time for a short term profit for a few.........that's what has to be weighed.

    The Japan disaster is being covered big time, half of the fish in the Pacific got dosed, do we have any radioactive tests at the fish processing plants?

    We're getting hit left to right, and forget oysters and clams, they just caught a guy taking oysters from a bed outside a sewer treatment plant in Ct.

    http://www.courant.com/hc-oyster-bed-shut-down-20160610-story.html

    Sorry , Cesium and iodine and many other nasty things floating are not a good alternative to the by products of fossil fuels . Only use there ever was for these plants was to make weapons .
    You didn't get what you didn't pay for and it will never be what you thought it would .
    Langans Plumbing & Heating LLC
    732-751-1560
    Serving most of New Jersey, Eastern Pa .
    Consultation, Design & Installation anywhere
    Rich McGrath 732-581-3833
  • GreenGene
    GreenGene Member Posts: 290


    Where does the 300 year number come from?
    Uranium has a half life of 4.5 billion years.


    That's what I was told and read, a MINIMUM of 300 years

    key word MINIMUM
  • GreenGene
    GreenGene Member Posts: 290
    Rich said:

    GreenGene said:

    ChrisJ said:

    Interesting.
    And how much energy is 5% of the fuel?

    That's where it gets murky, because yes, by using nukes we are saving a lot of fossil fuels, BUT, even though we are also saving on the air pollution we are adding tons of toxic and radioactive waste to our environment and when you are talking about something that will be toxic and radioactive for well over 300 years it's way beyond the here and now, there are prices that will have to be paid by people of this Earth for a long time for a short term profit for a few.........that's what has to be weighed.

    The Japan disaster is being covered big time, half of the fish in the Pacific got dosed, do we have any radioactive tests at the fish processing plants?

    We're getting hit left to right, and forget oysters and clams, they just caught a guy taking oysters from a bed outside a sewer treatment plant in Ct.

    http://www.courant.com/hc-oyster-bed-shut-down-20160610-story.html

    Sorry , Cesium and iodine and many other nasty things floating are not a good alternative to the by products of fossil fuels . Only use there ever was for these plants was to make weapons .
    I don't disagree, it's just that's their argument for using them, saving fossil fuel, cutting air pollution, want a bigger laugh?

    The Green Mechanical Council which I think is part of ESCO, ranks nuke plants as green as teaches that in its courses.
  • Paul48
    Paul48 Member Posts: 4,470
    The "machine" will spend a fortune of our tax dollars to keep the status quo. Keep those meters spinning. If someone were to invent a magnet motor generator, it would quickly be outlawed, and the inventor killed.
    GreenGene
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 14,786
    Paul48 said:

    The "machine" will spend a fortune of our tax dollars to keep the status quo. Keep those meters spinning. If someone were to invent a magnet motor generator, it would quickly be outlawed, and the inventor killed.


    Someone like Elon Musk?
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • BobC
    BobC Member Posts: 5,190
    @ChrisJ The fuels have similar energy output as I understand it, the problem with solid fuel reactors is they tend to poison themselves after a while and the fuel rods have to be changed out. With a liquid fueled reactor the poison can be chemically filtered out. Another benefit of a liquid salt thorium fueled reactor is they run at a hotter temperature but at low pressure so you don't need to built a huge pressure vessel to contain a high pressure core. The higher temperature means you can run the turbines at higher pressure and that means they can be smaller. The steam can be high pressure but the reactor is low pressure.

    Not having to build a huge vessel that can withstand hundreds of pounds of pressure saves a fortune and because there is no water there is no danger of a hydrogen release (the hydrogen is what blew up in Japan).

    Uranium and especially plutonium have very long half lives so any waste has to be stored for tens of thousands of years because they tend to generate a lot of transuranic waste which is really toxic. If you use thorium instead of uranium in a liquid salt reactor the waste is magnitudes of order lower and has almost zero transurnaic content because the nature of the beast is to burn it all up.

    This type of reactor was prototyped back in the '60's and still needs work on it's development but I think it holds a lot more promise than any solid fuel reactor. We have a choice to keep doing what we have been doing and end up with 95% waste of very toxic material or we can restart the work we started 50 years ago and deal with 5% short lived waste material.

    I would start by building a thorium reactor next to every boiling water reactor and start burning up the thousands of tons of waste at each of these sites. It's the only way to safely get rid of this material.

    Bob
    Smith G8-3 with EZ Gas @ 90,000 BTU, Single pipe steam
    Vaporstat with a 12oz cut-out and 4oz cut-in
    3PSI gauge
    GreenGene
  • Paul48
    Paul48 Member Posts: 4,470
    How does Elon Musk fit into this?
  • Gordy
    Gordy Member Posts: 9,514
    edited June 2016
  • Paul48
    Paul48 Member Posts: 4,470
    So....You think we'll be living in tin shacks, with Coke bottle air conditioners in the windows? :smile:
  • Gordy
    Gordy Member Posts: 9,514
    Never know. We're a stones throw from starting over some days.....
    GreenGene
  • Gordy
    Gordy Member Posts: 9,514
    The lack of conveniences has lead us to innovation.
  • Paul48
    Paul48 Member Posts: 4,470
    Imagine what bringing free electricity to impoverished areas would mean. I know it's off topic, but in 100 years we may be using something developed in a 3rd world country, to power our homes.
  • GreenGene
    GreenGene Member Posts: 290
    Well if you look at history that's the way it goes, societies ramp up, some get very rich IMPLODE, start over, there's ruins around that prove it.

    The plague was another, we were here, in the America's, the plague kind of put of a damper on travel and discovery, Columbus was just picking up where it left off.

    Check out the sails on his ships, Knights Templar.
  • GreenGene
    GreenGene Member Posts: 290
    I've gotten into history quite a bit, some is fascinating, the Knights didn't get destroyed on Friday the 13th, but they left and went to Scotland for starters, helped Robert the Bruce (took over from Braveheart) defeat the King and continued on, eventually becoming The Masons.
  • SWEI
    SWEI Member Posts: 7,356

    I imagine ductless units that can be installed between a 14-1/2" stud space, that don't stick out more then a standard grill and use no more then 100 watts.

    Make that a tiny terminal heatpump connected to a water loop.
    GreenGene said:

    As to Net Metering, it's written by and for the electric companies

    Net metering laws were written and passed through the efforts of RE advocates 10-25 years ago. The utilities are currently in the process of rewriting (or flat out eliminating) them via their superior legislative 'purchasing power.'
    Gordy said:

    That delivery charge encompasses all the maintenance,and upgrades to the infrastructure that KW follows to your home.

    I would rather it not be a flat fee. Think of it like a toll road you use it you pay for it. That's the fairest tax there is.

    The principal cost of utility grid infrastructure is related to capacity rather than carriage. A fair charge could be based on the meter size -- or better yet, the annual peak kVA usage of a particular customer.
  • Gordy
    Gordy Member Posts: 9,514
    Capacity is a relative term. Capacity is coupled to the carriage. Most new plants tap into existing lines with some investment in lines from the plant to existing.

    Most cost is up keep to dilapidated infrastructure. Just trying to keep their head above water.

    I still believe a fair rate is that being based on usage. Maybe peak KVA so long as it is consistent.

    I would like to see numbers on up front costs for power distribution verses KW sold. Power lines last forever. It's the poles, transformers,plant maintenance, etc that eats the profits. Along with a mountain of personnel on the ready line to fix everything when needed.
  • Paul48
    Paul48 Member Posts: 4,470
    "Most cost is up keep to dilapidated infrastructure. Just trying to keep their head above water"

    They didn't just wake up one day, and it was a POS. They ran it into the ground, and continue to do so.

    When I chose to not use my utility for generation, I was told I could no longer be on a budget plan...no big deal. I was paid in full, and up-to-date with my account. But , I got a bill for an additional $450. I called with copies of my bills for the last year in front of me. Long story, short.....they wanted me to repay, what they had shorted their generation company. What ensued was a 2 week telephone battle. I was not the only one...they did it to all their customers, and I never heard it being fixed, just folks complaining about getting these huge bills.
  • GreenGene
    GreenGene Member Posts: 290
    edited June 2016
    electricity should have never ever been For PROFIT, and tied to Wall st and stock holders, it kills the economy, all energy does, when oil and gasoline was rigged through the Enron Loophole to go to $5 gallon it killed the economy, do some math on any company that had trucks on the road and all of our food and goods get trucked.

    then add the double whammy of the electric company jerks seizing the moment and jumping up the price of electricity when it didn't really affect them just to get richer

    and all of our goods went up in price twice, that's why regulations exist and that's why the wrote CFMA of 2000 to bypass regulations, to get rich and rip us off and they got away with it

    and some jerks are on tv saying it was because people bought houses they couldn't afford, yeah, it was the people's fault, yeah they're in control

    notice electric rates didn't drop much either when oil finally crashed even though there was a glut of it on the market for well since about 2004 or so
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 11,567
    Paul48 said:

    "Most cost is up keep to dilapidated infrastructure. Just trying to keep their head above water"

    They didn't just wake up one day, and it was a POS. They ran it into the ground, and continue to do so.

    When I chose to not use my utility for generation, I was told I could no longer be on a budget plan...no big deal. I was paid in full, and up-to-date with my account. But , I got a bill for an additional $450. I called with copies of my bills for the last year in front of me. Long story, short.....they wanted me to repay, what they had shorted their generation company. What ensued was a 2 week telephone battle. I was not the only one...they did it to all their customers, and I never heard it being fixed, just folks complaining about getting these huge bills.

    That they do.
    Wasn't First Energy also to blame for the huge blackout in the 90's that also took Canada down, and then they tried to blame Canada?

    Turned out to be a ton of untrimmed trees and crap.

    Maintaining the system isn't important. Signing on a ton of new customers you can't support is what matters.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
    GreenGene
  • GreenGene
    GreenGene Member Posts: 290
    Yeah, here in the NE the merger with Mass's Eversource with CL&P and NU did nothing but make a few rich.

    Since 1980 we've been on a wild ride of people manipulating things to get themselves more money by cutting services.
  • GreenGene
    GreenGene Member Posts: 290
    I remember when CL&P had several crews and were always fixing things, adding lines, changing transformers, trimming trees.

    All we the people get are less and less and less.

    BTW if you get a troublesome system going off on reset everyday and you can't figure it out leave a meter that will measure a high and low voltage over a 24 period, Fluke makes one, you're probably getting low voltage usually in the AM because our infrastructure sucks.
  • jumper
    jumper Member Posts: 1,623
    New homes in Canada are so well sealed that heat pump ERV can provide most of the heat. I don't see combustion fuel being competitive a century from now. Somebody somewhere will have developed a new generation atomic power facility by then.
  • jumper
    jumper Member Posts: 1,623
    ChrisJ said:

    GreenGene said:


    In fact all across the nation electric companies are paying off politicians to write bad law to make solar unattractive. Initially they had to pay you, now all they have to do is give you a credit towards your electric bill which you might never use and that money stays with them.

    That's a factually incorrect statement.

    Most utilities have to pay you for the excess power that you generate. Of course, it's a pittance and only represents their actual cost to produce the power but it still confirms that your conclusion is seriously flawed.
    As far as I've been told, the power company won't let me install larger than a certain size system and it's based off of my electrical usage. No matter how much roof I have, I'm only allowed to install a system large enough to barely cover my electric, they intentionally don't want that meter spinning backwards.

    Now, that's what I've been told by a few reliable people. I haven't actually done it.
    Are there any laws against using solar to directly power AC totally unconnected to grid? Seems to me that if solar was even close to economic then that would be the first thing to try.

    Solid_Fuel_Man
  • Gordy
    Gordy Member Posts: 9,514
    No laws against off grid AC. Just the inefficiencies of PV. Sure the solar is free, but converting it to usable electricity is not, and quite pricey. The panel efficiency requires a large area to get any worth while KW to free power an avg. home.
    Rich_49
  • Gordy
    Gordy Member Posts: 9,514
    @ChrisJ you can do what ever you want with out power companies say so. However if you are going to go as far as total off grid then why would you want the grid?

    On another note I guarantee you don't have enough usable roof space to allow total for a totally off grid system..maybe yard open land also. Then comes storage......
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