Click here to Find a Contractor in your area.
Welcome! Here are the website rules, as well as some tips for using this forum.
Need to contact us? Visit https://heatinghelp.com/contact-us/.
Help with big purchase for newbie! :-)

Hi, this is Laura from Boston. I just found forum, first post.
My boiler cracked :-(
It is a Gas/Steam Boiler. House is 4 stories, 4390 SF with Steam Radiators (standing and baseboard) and some vents. Built in 1895, has relatively poor insulation. HomeServe came and measured the Radiators to Spec the Boiler. Recommended a Burnham IN-6 (175K BTU) to replace the failing (35year old) Utica (263K BTU). I have 2 questions regarding this transaction. I welcome your informed opinion.
1) Sizing: ONLY the radiators were measured for the sizing. He made no other measurements other than referring to a small notebook/guide with drawings of radiators in it. I am concerned about the discrepancy of the old 263K BTU with the newly specced 175K BTU, especially in view of the poor insulation (difficult to improve in this house) and the large (4390 SF) house. Do you think it is possible that this is correct or should I be concerned? Some have told me that even IF it is undersized, it would only "underheat" the house on a few of the coldest days of the year (which I wouldn't mind), and actually be more efficient the other times. Do you think it is likely undersized? Should I be concerned? If so, what should I do?
2) Reliability: I have found many questionable reviews of the Burnham Independence Series online. Do you think this line is a good choice for quality, longevity, warranty, etc? Do you have alternate brand (similar to this one) that you like better?
Thanks for any help! -Laura :-)
My boiler cracked :-(
It is a Gas/Steam Boiler. House is 4 stories, 4390 SF with Steam Radiators (standing and baseboard) and some vents. Built in 1895, has relatively poor insulation. HomeServe came and measured the Radiators to Spec the Boiler. Recommended a Burnham IN-6 (175K BTU) to replace the failing (35year old) Utica (263K BTU). I have 2 questions regarding this transaction. I welcome your informed opinion.
1) Sizing: ONLY the radiators were measured for the sizing. He made no other measurements other than referring to a small notebook/guide with drawings of radiators in it. I am concerned about the discrepancy of the old 263K BTU with the newly specced 175K BTU, especially in view of the poor insulation (difficult to improve in this house) and the large (4390 SF) house. Do you think it is possible that this is correct or should I be concerned? Some have told me that even IF it is undersized, it would only "underheat" the house on a few of the coldest days of the year (which I wouldn't mind), and actually be more efficient the other times. Do you think it is likely undersized? Should I be concerned? If so, what should I do?
2) Reliability: I have found many questionable reviews of the Burnham Independence Series online. Do you think this line is a good choice for quality, longevity, warranty, etc? Do you have alternate brand (similar to this one) that you like better?
Thanks for any help! -Laura :-)
0
Leave a Comment
Categories
- 80.9K THE MAIN WALL
- 2.5K A-C, Heat Pumps & Refrigeration
- 36 Biomass
- 394 Carbon Monoxide Awareness
- 2.6K Controls
- 1.4K Domestic Hot Water
- 3.7K Gas Heating
- 101 Geothermal
- 130 Indoor-Air Quality
- 2.3K Oil Heating
- 30 Pipe Deterioration
- 565 Plumbing
- 4.2K Radiant Heating
- 333 Solar
- 12.1K Strictly Steam
- 36 Water Quality
- 7 Industry Classes
- 52 Job Opportunities
- 7 Recall Announcements
Comments
https://www.homeserveusa.com/
"Reducing our country's energy consumption, one system at a time"
Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
Oil & Gas Burner Service
Baltimore, MD (USA) and consulting anywhere.
https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/all-steamed-up-inc
Your old boiler was probably over-sized.
Following the manufacturers instructions exactly in regard to the piping, is another good sign.
Make sure he pays attention to the main venting, and not so much the radiator venting at first.
cleaning the boiler of the oils of installation, (known as skimming), is a time consuming process which you can do yourself. Likewise the pipe insulation, (1 inch fiberglass minimum), could be another DIY project, and must be done.
I have had good luck with Peerless boilers, but others may have experience, good or bad with Burnham. Most boiler problems are due to faulty installation.--NBC
At the very least, you need a second opinion. At the top of this page, click on Main Site, then Find a Contractor, and follow the instructions. Some of these guys may charge to come out, but it would be worth it. You certainly don't want to have to do this job twice!
"Reducing our country's energy consumption, one system at a time"
Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
Oil & Gas Burner Service
Baltimore, MD (USA) and consulting anywhere.
https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/all-steamed-up-inc
I'm really new @ this. Last week I couldn't even spell "Boiler". So, any other suggestions or pointers are welcome! Thanx Much!
most contracts will have some wording like this so they don't get a "surprise"
The current bid says "replace and add to existing piping".
I can't tell you I much I appreciate this help and any suggestions no matter how small.
THANK YOU! (Yes, the pipes ARE wrapped in asbestos (will cost another 2K to have taken out).
You guys are really making me rethink this, as I think the quote I got (8K for the Burnham IN6 installed) is generous enough to entertain other company proposals.
New steam boilers are not as robust as anything installed 35 years ago. The near boiler piping you have now is wrong, the new boiler has to be piped optimally if you want it to last and to save fuel.
You have to specify both steam outlets are to be used and the boiler header should be one size larger at a minimum for good efficiency and longevity.
The image I have attached has one outlet for a steam main, you will need three from what I see. The steam risers coming out of the boiler are usually 2" on a Burnham, the header that connects the two boiler risers to the steam mains and the boiler equalizer should be a 3" diameter pipe so that you get nice dry steam (saves fuel). It costs more money to do it right but it's a one time expense that will pay you back every year. That drawing does not show a hartford loop, most boilers need a hartford loop on the equalizer to protect you against loss of boiler water.
As others have said the quality of the install is very important, find a good steam man and have him quote this. Homeserve will slap something in there that just won't perform the way it should.
Bob
Vaporstat with a 12oz cut-out and 4oz cut-in
3PSI gauge
See also http://www.comfort-calc.net/Steam_Piping_Donts.cfm
You're somewhat unlikely to get the home warranty company to pay for anything over and above "standard accepted practices." Fortunately for you, the boiler manufacturers all include minimum installation standards in their boiler installation manuals. You can (must, really) hold the insurance carrier and the installer to those requirements.
You should be able to persuade the installing contractor to upsize the header at a relatively small incremental cost, which is well worth paying for out of your own pocket.
If you do a search here for "water hammer, banging, noisy pipes, high gas bills, freezing, overheated", you will read of the horrors of many incompetent installations. Many times people have paid twice: once to put in the boiler cheaply, and the second time to reinstall another boiler properly!
You have been fortunate to come here, before the mistakes were made.--NBC
Actually, with help, you could do it yourself, and join the ranks of the "steam ladies" on this site!
You should probably measure the radiators yourself, to doublecheck the estimators EDR. Is this one-pipe, or two-pipe steam?
EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Boiler Control
Boiler pictures updated 2/21/15
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10202744301871904.1073741828.1330391881&type=1&l=c34ad6ee78
No, he didn't ask much about how the old system was (I know, not a good sign). Interestingly, the old system did pretty well.
Their proposal specifically states that they will connect the new boiler to existing piping (again, you guys have educated me that this is not good).
Connecting to existing near-boiler piping will not meet the boiler manufacturer's minimum installation requirements.
Bob
Vaporstat with a 12oz cut-out and 4oz cut-in
3PSI gauge
Again, the insurance will pay for work that meets the boiler manufacturer's minimum standards as long as you make them. The additional cost for "above and beyond" should be all that you have to shoulder.
For example the home warranty would only pay for code minimum most likely. Other "upgrades" would be your responsibility.
Bob
Vaporstat with a 12oz cut-out and 4oz cut-in
3PSI gauge
Did your boiler leak water onto the floor? Or did you have steam coming from the chimney in the winter? Who said it is cracked?
The boiler started needing water to be added daily. The tech that came to check on the problem opened the bottom of the boiler and observed/showed the crack.
Take your time and choose wisely, The name on the truck is more important then the name on the box.
Get Dans book " The lost art of steam heating" good read with tons of information for you.
A simple test to confirm a leak is to flood the boiler up to the header or riser pipes. That is to over fill the boiler and wait for water to show up on the floor. You may not want to have this done until the heating season has passed, which may be soon.
Do you have any return pipes under the basement floor or hiding such that they cannot be seen perhaps in a crawl space?
One question: One contractor I spoke with about doing an estimate/second opinion told me that if I did business with him, I would need an electrician to hook up the electrical part of the boiler if I hired him (he estimated electrician would charge about $600 for this, so not trivial). Does it make sense to need an electrician where I am just replacing a standard steam boiler with a replacement? I thought it was all microvolts. I believe that Homeserve was going to hook up the electrical part themselves (without an electrician). What is normal procedure and what is advised for this?
Many boilers come in 2 flavors as far as the wiring goes-24 volts, and 120 volts.
Time to do a DIY, and learn all these elements!
Do a search for Vaporvac, to see how she handled everything.--NBC
New England SteamWorks
Service, Installation, & Restoration of Steam Heating Systems
newenglandsteamworks.com
I've worked as an industrial electrician in the past so I have no problems doing this kind of work. It took me about 30 minutes to string 30 ft of wire in the basement, install a 2 pole circuit breaker in my panel and put an approved disconnect on the wall outside.
I am also having the house sided and I was quoted a good price by a respected contractor and I told him I wanted the siding under the electric feed coming down the side of the house. He told me he has an electrician on call and that was included in the price he quoted me
I have no problem paying a tradesman for his time and expertise but some companies can never get quite enough out of your hide. I suggest you get someone else to tie the boiler into your system for you at a more reasonable cost.
Bob
Vaporstat with a 12oz cut-out and 4oz cut-in
3PSI gauge