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Water softener

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LionA29
LionA29 Member Posts: 255
Any recommendations on a water softener?
Looking for a all in one cabinet style because of space.
Thank you

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  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 23,635
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    For what purpose? And how much flow?
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
  • LionA29
    LionA29 Member Posts: 255
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    For whole house use with 3 showers.
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,468
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    Typically 75 gallons per person, per day. Next you need to test the water and see what the hardness is
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    LionA29
  • LionA29
    LionA29 Member Posts: 255
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    It has a hardness of 8.
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 23,635
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    There are all kinds of water softeners out there -- and a number of companies which specialize in them. Not to mention being able to buy them from the big box folks and even places like Sears.

    Is that 8 figure in "grains"? A unit which I deplore? That's really not that high, and most units will do that just fine.
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
    LionA29
  • LionA29
    LionA29 Member Posts: 255
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    It was tested by a company who markets softenor. I think it's 8 grains. There is significant scale build up on shower head that is just 3 months old, shower door and also dishwasher. I was looking at Fleck 5600SXT cabinet style.Dont know if anyone had any experience with them.
  • Gordy
    Gordy Member Posts: 9,546
    edited April 2016
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    Waterboss. On demand. Have one for 13 years no issues. Mine is 28 grains hardness. Like throwing limestone out of the faucet.
    LionA29
  • LionA29
    LionA29 Member Posts: 255
    edited April 2016
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    @Gordy that's horrible. Can you post some pics and model #?
    Thank you
  • nicholas bonham-carter
    nicholas bonham-carter Member Posts: 8,578
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    That figure of 28 grains puts things into perspective.
    The salts in the water coming out of the softener must have some detrimental effect on the longevity of the hot water heater, and boiler.--NBC
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,468
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    In excess of 40 grains in some areas.http://funkyfluff.ca/water-hardness-in-canada/

    Dual head softener a are another more $$ option. It assures you never run low on soft water

    Opinions on soft water in boilers vary, many now agree soft is better than excessive hardness

    Ideally boiler water is demineralized, not softened. DM is not an ion exchange,no sodium substituted. The residual conductivity from softening raises the conductivity which can increase electrolysis

    Water quality in hydronics is becoming a huge issue as chlorides in our public supplies continues to increase

    Pay close attention to what the boiler manuals suggest if you ever have a warranty issue, water quality will decide who covers a replacement
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • Gordy
    Gordy Member Posts: 9,546
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    It's sodium bicarbonate not sodium chloride after the ion exchange.
  • Gordy
    Gordy Member Posts: 9,546
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    I have the big boss. Compact easy to install. Set the grains it does the rest. Except fill itself with salt. As I said its on demand so it saves salt. Does not regenerate unnecessarily.
    LionA29Hillykcopp
  • LionA29
    LionA29 Member Posts: 255
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    Ok, thank you @Gordy
  • LionA29
    LionA29 Member Posts: 255
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    @Gordy How do you handle the supply Water to your boiler? Is it Softened water?
    Is it a problem?
    Thanks
  • LionA29
    LionA29 Member Posts: 255
    edited February 2017
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    Error
  • Gordy
    Gordy Member Posts: 9,546
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    I don't use softened water. Not a steamer so no make up water is needed. However it's make up water is not softened.
    LionA29
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 23,635
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    Yup. They don't work.
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
  • LionA29
    LionA29 Member Posts: 255
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    Almost done with my new fresh water make up water line bypassing my softener with chlorine filtration.
    Must say, water quality is way better than what I had!
  • Hodsonian
    Hodsonian Member Posts: 6
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    Hi, I'm considering installing a new combi condensing boiler. One of my concerns is that I live in an are with hard water. I would like to avoid using a salt based water softener. What is the best salt-free option?
    Thanks!
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,468
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    Depends on what results you are looking for. Salt free type do not remove the hardness minerals, they change the structure, supposedly, to keep them from scaling out into pipes and appliances.

    A true ion-exchange type softener removes, or exchanges the calcium and magnesium with the brine solution.

    This dealer does a good job of explaining the differences.


    http://idahowatersolutions.com/water-softeners/the-truth-salt-vs-salt-free-water-softeners/
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    LionA29
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 23,635
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    See my comment on the other related thread. If you want to reduce the hardness and total dissolved solids for use in a boiler, reverse osmosis is by far the best approach. Other softeners do change the mineralogy or the structure of the dissolved solids, but they don't reduce the total dissolved solids and, while they may reduce scaling (or may not), they either do nothing to the corrossivity of the water -- or increase it.
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
    LionA29
  • BerntKruse
    BerntKruse Member Posts: 5
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    I would agree with above, use a reverse osmosis filtration system.
  • kcopp
    kcopp Member Posts: 4,448
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    If your water quality is poor I would not consider a combi boiler...at least one that uses a brazed plate heat exchanger.
    You asking for a lot of clogging and poor hot water issues down the road.