New to me Richardson Two Pipe System

bigsteamedp

Hi All, I'm a new member and new to steam (just moved in Dec) - and I've been searching this site for about 2 months now. Great stuff here and great people, and I can't tell you how much I've learned already (it's a start by being able to ID my specific system). I have a Richardson 2 pipe system with quite a few modifications from what I can tell, but today I'm trying to address major issues. I've corrected a lot already that the previous contractor who maintained this system apparently did not know. I'll spare the specific name of the company to protect them (they are not listed in the find a contractor section). I'll start by noting that the system pressuretrol cut out was at over 7lbs! Just turned it down and added new Gorton #1s around the system and have had amazing improvements with just that fix. Although, my family enjoyed the basement steam sauna we had going on!!

Ok, my question - Today I am asking for a bit of advice fixing what seems to be a clogged return ball check elbow on one radiator. The one rad bangs like crazy and then sounds like a flushing toilet during the cycle and the return is STEAM hot. From this I have determined that it is a bad/clogged ball check elbow. It looks to me from diagrams and other posts I've seen on here that I can just take it out and clean it or replace it with a thermostatic trap, correct? Is the water tube hard to remove, or require a special tool?

My question stems from the fact that I had a bad experience with another ball check style TRAP I tried to remove where the nipple sheared off in the elbow fitting and it took me forever to try and get it out. Anyways I got it, and I'll put in a Thermostatic trap as soon as I can get to it. Although my mistake accidentally took a big radiator temporarily out of service - turns out it was supplying indirect heat for "special rooms" according to the Richarson's Manual. We've had pretty warm weather so I'm lucky for now until I can get it fixed!

So goes my fun with steam. Any replies or help on the ball check elbow removal, cleaning or replacement to boost my confidence for this next job would be grateful. I'll post some pics of the near boiler piping for comments in a bit, as well as a few in-line parts that I cannot figure out what they are... Thanks!!

Fizz

I've removed the ball and tube in one of my Richards' rads, it doesn't require a special tool, though before removing tube I'd line the top of tube with nail polish or marker to align correctly when returning it in place. Also, last year I had another rad that wasn't heating well due to stuck ball, and rapped elbow with heel of a shoe which worked. Didn't have to remove or clean ball and it works fine. You may try it, if it works fine. You may have other issues, and the pros here will be invaluable. Good luck.

bigsteamedp

Hi, Finally got around to posting some pics of the near boiler piping. Comments are welcome, although I'm not planning on doing much about it right now. Maybe a new controller to a vaporstat, I've got a LP gauge ready to go in just gotta find the time for install.

I've got 3 Gorton #1s on the 3 separate return vents right now, probably going to get a #2 or a Hoffman #75 as the #1s seem to still not be evac the air quick enough and there is air/steam coming out well into a cycle.

Overall my system seems to be running good, I've found over 22 radiators. Only thing I'm focused on this winter is cleaning up the returns. The return mains are almost immediately steam hot after a few minutes into a cycle. Most Rads have Richardson traps, and newer style radiator valves on the inlet, not Richardson. I have located one or two Richardson valves. A few old thermostatic traps - replacement cages on order. And some I can't tell, look at the "Trap" pic - I don't think this is a water seal elbow??... looks to me like a union and a regular elbow. Can't find any other trap on this return and being that this Rad bangs like crazy all night long I'm guessing it doesn't have one.

bigsteamedp

Hi All, reviving my thread and thinking about heat again as winter comes up. Seems like the Mass Saves program has a early boiler replacement program so I'm thinking about my options with my HB Mills 200/2000 series. Any thoughts on options?

1) Tune the existing burner?
2) Replace existing burner?
3) Replace boiler?

Overall it seems to run fine house heats OK. It just seems like it's really expensive to run. There are no visible leaks on the floor... any experience with HB failures?

Jamie Hall

That picture of a "trap" sure doesn't look like a trap... is there a decent valve on that radiator? If there is, try closing the valve down until, with the boiler running for a while, the outlet is at least not hot. That may help a lot...

The other thing to do -- in line with your comment or "expensive to run" -- is actually a little time consuming -- but you could try to do a heat loss estimate on the house. Not something we usually have to worry about, but in this case... the idea is to find out what your actual heat losses are. The reason I'm suggesting this is that it is much more likely that the expensive to run part isn't really the fault of the boiler -- although the near boiler piping is not at all what it should be. If you had a heat loss estimate for the house, you would have some idea how far off the mark things are.

As I said, that near boiler piping is not good. However, the very first thing to do before thinking about a new boiler (they aren't cheap!) is to have a really good service tech. come in and clean it and tune the burner up and see where that gets you. A lot cheaper than starting to replace things!

If you can't find a good burner tech., let us know where you are -- we may know someone in your area -- or try the Find a Contractor tab.

bigsteamedp

Hi Jamie, thanks for the quick response. To your first comment it was not a trap, just an elbow. This unit did not have a trap on it so I've installed a new trap in place of the elbow and I think it is much better. This is not the only radiator that doesn't seem to have a trap on it in my house. I'm trying to get to others now.

Haha... to your second and very good point re: "isn't really the fault of the boiler." You are very right, what I forgot to mention in my most recent post is that of last winter I found that my house was pretty much un-insulated - zero. I've got about 75% better insulation and I'm trying to get the last portion done before it gets too cold, but I may not make it now that it's late October.... although what I've done should help the expense part.

To your final point, I think I'll try the tune up. I'll call one of the contractors listed on this site that are local. If you have any suggestions for things to ask the contractor about tune ups that would probably be helpful?

I'd start with - checking to see if they have a digital combustion analyzer, flue gas temp and firing BTU's...right?

EDIT: I'm located in Worcester, MA

Sailah

That doesn't look like any Richardson trap I have on file.

bigsteamedp

Pics in the post are a year ago. I've updated a few things. I'll see if I can remember to take some updated ones soon.

Jamie Hall

Good heavens. If you're in Worcester, try Charles -- @Charlie from wmass . The man is fiendishly busy, but he's also very very good indeed.

Charlie from wmass

I work in Worcester a fair bit. Sooner you call the sooner I can schedule a time.