Boiler troubles PLEASE HELP

AlanaGrace

So I haven't had heat in a week. Before that, I knew absolutely nothing about boilers. I've been doing nothing but research on my own but I need help!

I'm now taking care of my parents house and my mother, and it's fallen on my shoulders to fix this problem. I have a Burnham v36 boiler to run my steam heating system. Last week I had an issue with my mixing valve for hot water and had a handy friend over to take care of it. Water temperature was fixed with no issue, but he took it upon himself to "service" my boiler. He thought I had a hot water heating system, so after he drained the boiler, he filled my pipes with water and fired it up. Needless to say the water hammer sounds were nightmarish and I immediately knew something was wrong. I had my father come by, when he lived here he did basic maintenance on the boiler, and he drained a scary amount of water from my system. After he left (still knowing nothing about my boiler) I assumed everything would be fine. I bumped up the thermostat, the heat kicked on and everything seemed okay. Until I heard a new sound and opened the basement door. The pressure relief valve had popped and the psi was up to 20! Now I got a new pressuretrpl because obviously that was not working, but of course that is not my issue. My boiler should have never built that much pressure. I have tried turning the heat on since, and build up to 5 psi before the pipes on the radiators nearest to the basement even get warm. I had a technician out here the day after my dad looked at it, he did routine cleaning and replaced electrodes and I picked his brain about what might be going on. He mentioned the pressuretrol which is why I got a new one and agreed that it still doesn't explain why the psi would be building. I thought it might be because the lines are clogged and he agreed. I think when my well meaning friend flushed my system out he pulled 50 years worth of rust from my pipes and radiators and clogged the lines.

SO that brings me up to date. What I've been doing is INTENTIONALLY flooding the lines and then draining the whole system repeatedly. I have my boyfriend at a radiator with the vent pulled off, and I fil until water comes out the vent hole, then I open the spigot at the bottom of the Hartford loop. This seems to have helped as the radiators are warming up before psi builds, but still the psi is getting up to 5 before I shut the boiler down.

MY QUESTION is, do you think my wet returns and/or the Hartford loop/equilizer might be clogged?

Have you EVER heard of the pressure in a steam heating boiler getting above 2psi???

Please help.. suggest anything because at this point I am at my wits end.

JUGHNE

The over fill may have plugged the "pigtail" that the pressure control is mounted on. The little pipe with the 360 loop in it. If that is clean and the bottom of the Presurtrol is clean then the control will see what is actually in the boiler.

There may be other problems but start there and report back, please with pictures of boiler controls & piping around boiler.

That much water pressure may have wrecked some air vents.
But concentrate on keeping the pressure down, adjust the pressure control down to where the old one was set. 2 PSI or less.

Steamhead

My first question is, where are you located? Because at this point, you need the kind of help that only a good Steam Man can give.

Your system was designed to run on ounces of pressure, not pounds. That 30-pound gauge is required by Code, which is another story. Normally the gauge should only just barely move off zero before the pressure control stops the burner. So something is seriously wrong.

There should be a loop of pipe under the Pressuretrol which we call a pigtail. It is there to keep live steam from reaching the control, but if it clogs, the Pressuretrol won't work. This may be why the boiler built up so much pressure.

Flooding the system often loosens deposits that then work their way into the piping, which can cause banging.

You need to have a pro go over the boiler and system, NOW.

AlanaGrace

So I haven't had heat in a week. Before that, I knew absolutely nothing about boilers. I've been doing nothing but research on my own but I need help!

I'm now taking care of my parents house and my mother, and it's fallen on my shoulders to fix this problem. I have a Burnham v36 boiler to run my steam heating system. Last week I had an issue with my mixing valve for hot water and had a handy friend over to take care of it. Water temperature was fixed with no issue, but he took it upon himself to "service" my boiler. He thought I had a hot water heating system, so after he drained the boiler, he filled my pipes with water and fired it up. Needless to say the water hammer sounds were nightmarish and I immediately knew something was wrong. I had my father come by, when he lived here he did basic maintenance on the boiler, and he drained a scary amount of water from my system. After he left (still knowing nothing about my boiler) I assumed everything would be fine. I bumped up the thermostat, the heat kicked on and everything seemed okay. Until I heard a new sound and opened the basement door. The pressure relief valve had popped and the psi was up to 20! Now I got a new pressuretrpl because obviously that was not working, but of course that is not my issue. My boiler should have never built that much pressure. I have tried turning the heat on since, and build up to 5 psi before the pipes on the radiators nearest to the basement even get warm. I had a technician out here the day after my dad looked at it, he did routine cleaning and replaced electrodes and I picked his brain about what might be going on. He mentioned the pressuretrol which is why I got a new one and agreed that it still doesn't explain why the psi would be building. I thought it might be because the lines are clogged and he agreed. I think when my well meaning friend flushed my system out he pulled 50 years worth of rust from my pipes and radiators and clogged the lines.

SO that brings me up to date. What I've been doing is INTENTIONALLY flooding the lines and then draining the whole system repeatedly. I have my boyfriend at a radiator with the vent pulled off, and I fil until water comes out the vent hole, then I open the spigot at the bottom of the Hartford loop. This seems to have helped as the radiators are warming up before psi builds, but still the psi is getting up to 5 before I shut the boiler down.

MY QUESTION is, do you think my wet returns and/or the Hartford loop/equilizer might be clogged?

Have you EVER heard of the pressure in a steam heating boiler getting above 2psi???

Please help.. suggest anything because at this point I am at my wits end.

AlanaGrace

Yes I forgot to add that I already removed the pigtail and cleaned it out, it was certainly clogged, pressuretrol now works but that does not solve my problem of psi going out of control so quickly. Heat does not even reach the nearest radiator before the pressuretrol shuts down the system. What could be causing that much pressure to build? I have a technitian coming tomorrow but I am so tight on cash.. I am trying to pinpoint potential problems before he gets here to save on time. If my wet return lines are clogged would that create pressure?

Fred

If the wet returns are clogged, that would certainly prevent water from returning to the boiler but I would expect all the rads to get hot before the pressure gets that high. The entire system should be pressureized and you are saying none of the radiators are getting hot. Are there any valves on the mains that your neighbor might have closed and forgot to reopen?

JUGHNE

The pressure control is in charge of the fire. Could the wiring be an issue. How many screws are on the new pressure control?
You should have only 2 wire/conductors going to it, but how many screws are on the control. Pictures would help.......

The pressure control doesn't know or care if there is a pipe connected to the boiler. It just knows what the steam pressure inside the boiler is. You could cap off every opening on the boiler and the control should shut off the fire when it felt the pressure.

Pictures of the control with the cover removed.........please.

Paul48

You need a "Steam Professional", not an HVAC tech. If you give us your location, we may be able to point you in the right direction.

JUGHNE

The flushing water could have wrecked all the air vents. If so would they be permanently closed and allowing no air to vent? If so then no steam moving, no heat.

Again, pictures are good.

Jamie Hall

You do need a steam pro, as has been said -- and we know a lot of them.

However, in answer to some of your questions. First, clogs in the wet returns and associated piping won't cause the pressure to build before the radiators get hot -- at least one or two of them. However, complete failure of the vents -- whether it is one pipe or two pipe, doesn't matter -- could. If the air can't get out, the steam can't get to the radiators and as soon as the boiler starts to make steam, pressure would build. Considering the abuse, I might look at the vents and check them. You may be looking at replacing them...

Whatever, the pressuretrol should shut the boiler off before the pressure ever builds that far, which suggests that either it is still not working (unlikely, since you have a new one and have cleaned the pigtail)(did you remember to check where the pigtail screws into the boiler? I've seen that get clogged with gunk, by the way) or it is wired incorrectly. Which seems unlikely, but it is possible. As @JUGHNE suggested, a good closeup of the pressuretrol, with the cover off and done so we can see how the wires are attached would help there.

AlanaGrace

Do you guys know a good steam professional located near southern New Hampshire? I'm in Danville, NH

Jamie Hall

I think that @Charlie from wmass goes up that way. I'm not sure. If he does, he's your man. One of the very very best.

Jamie Hall

His 'phone is 413-841 6726
74 Alvord St., Springfield, MA 01108

AlanaGrace

Thank you so much!

Charlie from wmass

Before I go driving to NH. Can you give us a photo of the boiler from a few feet back and a close up of the new pressuretrol? Did the pigtail ( the curly pipe under the pressuretrol) get checked for blockage? Do you know if the gauge even works? You will notice from my comments I never saw a boiler gauge I believed.

JUGHNE

The gauge apparently goes up to 20 psi when the PRV opened, as noted by the OP. We are all just dying with baited breath for pictures (what the hell does that mean, anyway?)

Charlie from wmass

Gauges get clogged all the time, they have internal syphons. going to 20 does not mean 20. If the pigtail is clogged the boiler will over fire. If the pressuretrol is miswired it will over fire.

JUGHNE

I certainly agree about the gauges. However the PRV opened and that would have at 15PSI and by the time the HO/OP went to the basement the gauge was at 20. Accurate .....probably not, but not stuck on 0 or pegged on 30........that might define "working" for that class of economy gauge, which just barely meets required minimal standards anyway.

Base of pigtail could still be plugged.

P-troll could have 3 screws, wrong ones used?

AlanaGrace

Okay, the pigtail is no longer clogged, and neither is the hole where the pigtails attaches to the boiler. I was worried that the crazy amount of sediment that clogged the pigtail in the first place had destroyed the old pressuretrol, so after the new one was wired on, I have left it off the diaphram and I have been manually shutting down the system once it climbs over 2 psi. I don't believe my gauge is broken. I am afraid that if I attach the brand new diaphragm and pressurestol that residual sediment will further clog the new (expencive) pressuretrol.

This boiler hadn't been serviced in years. Drained or otherwise. I had no idea this was something that had to be done and I assumed my father would have informed me of any routine a maintenance that was expected of me. I now know otherwise and I am aware of the routine draining and checking of the sight glass that must be done. So there was a LOT of sediment in my boiler and I believe it all went into the pipes.

Let's say I rigged up the new pressuretrol. I would turn my thermostat up, boiler would fire and run for 1 minute, pressure builds to 2 psi in that amount of time and the pressurerrol will shut down the boiler. This does not even give me warm pipes 3 feet from the boiler.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the pressuretrol doesn't actually have anything to do with how much pressure the boiler is producing, right? It only tells it to shut off once it gets too high?

I will go grab pictures now.. 6034796642 I have work until 2pm today. If anyone wants to call me and have a vocal conversation I would greatly appreciate that...

Charlie from wmass

Off the diaphragm? You lost me there. The diaphragm is part of the pressuretrol. One does not take that apart in the field.

Abracadabra

pressure builds to 2 psi and pipes 3 feet from boiler aren't warm? that sounds fishy to me. my first guess is that gauge is faulty or you have absolutely no venting whatsoever on your system. none, zero, zilch.

check main vents, check radiator vents.

AlanaGrace

Charlie called me and set me straight. Thanks everyone!

Abracadabra

AlanaGrace said:

Charlie called me and set me straight. Thanks everyone!

Don't leave us hanging... what was the outcome/problem/solution?

Charlie from wmass

Let her get done with work then home first. She will let us know when she gets it going.

AlanaGrace

Charlie is fantastic.. spoke to me on the phone and calmed me down. I had completely screwed (no pun intended) TWO pressuretrols, the original and my replacement, by removing the diaphragm to attach it to the pigtail, instead of removing the pigtail and screwing that into the bottom of the pressuretrol. Newbie mistake, but I was starting with 0% knowledge a week ago. Anyway, I went out and got another pressuretrol this morning and attached it the CORRECT way.

All vents work, no valves were closed. In fact at the start of all of this I removed every radiator vent in my house and cleaned them thoroughly, even replacing a few with brand new ones that I wasn't satisfied with.

I am now pretty convinced after speaking to Charlie that my psi gauge is clogged, and that it is not accurate. I called my local supply store and had them order a T and a gauge to attach to the pigtail directly under the pressuretrol.

When the PRV popped a week ago, the pressuretrol pigtails WAS clogged. The clog has since been removed.

Furnace has been running for 15 minutes now, house is warming up, all radiator vents are plesantly whistling, and the psi has stuck around "10 psi" (according to the more than likely innacurate gauge) and the new pressuretrol has not shut down the system. So I will know for sure what the pressure is when the new gauge comes in, but for now I am content in knowing that even if this new pressuretrol for whatever reason is not working, the PRV will pop open.

THANK YOU EVERYONE FOR DEALING WITH THIS HUGE NEWB.

AlanaGrace

I called out of work until I am sure that the everything is working. Im letting the boiler get everything up to temperature and making sure the PRV doesn't pop before I go in...

AlanaGrace

pressuretrol works! It shut the system down like it should, meanwhile my obviously faulty psi gauge is up to 16 psi....

Steamhead

You still want to have Charlie come up to "sweat the details". He's as good a steam guy as any, and will take proper care of you.