buderus boiler, esbe mixing valve

Mare

Forgive my lack of knowledge! You all helped me the last time my heating company could not help me. I need help again, and I also need a company close to me that can service my system, as the one who installed it has had a ton of turnover, and the guys who knew the system have left. I have radiators and floor heat. The floor heat has a mixing valve that regulates the temp going into the red plastic tubing. When the guys fixed one leak, it loosened another fitting above the mixing valve. Last week my floor heat wasn't working and I spent almost 400 dollars to find out that the valve is sticking. Why that would shut down the floor system is a part I don't understand. I don't know if the valve got water mineral deposits on the knob, but it wasn't working again. I pushed it in, it unstuck and i could hear the water flowing again. Could they have cleaned the mixing valve? I'm afraid that I could leave town, and have my kitchen pipes freeze. Am i wrong to think that $400 should have fixed the problem? Do any of you contractors live near Libertyville Illinois? Or can you recommend someone? These guys are just not familiar with radiant systems.
Mary Anne Simpson

Mare

I don't think I was clear on my question, which is: what would make the mixing valve "stick"? Is there a simple way to get it not to stick? When it is "stuck", is that why my floor heat isn't working? And an additional question: I can never get the temperature in my kitchen (which is the radiant floor heat) to get above that of the main house. I have 2 separate thermostats, one in the foyer and one in the kitchen, but I can never get the kitchen warmer than the main house. Should I be able to? Is it a wiring glitch? I still need someone who understands this system, and who is near northern Illinois (Libertyville). Please advise!!

hot_rod

Is this a motorized mixing valve or thermostatic?
If it is sticking it may fail to adequately regulate temperature, but you still have flow going thru it.

Regardless of the type, a sticking valve should be cleaned and the parts inside, like o-rings and seals replaced. The rubber or EPDM rings and seal inside wear out, harden, tear, etc and can cause the valve to stick or hang up.

Mare

I'm not sure what type of valve. I attached a picture. The guy who came didn't clean it. I'm rather surprised it took 3 hours to figure out, since it's either a valve it a pump, right?

GW

That appears to be a motorized 4 way mixing valve, but even if it's a 3 way the comments will be the same. If your valve is sticking you likely have some issues with your boiler water. I've dealt with these valves for many years and haven't heard of a sticking valve (yet I can cerainly see this being a possibility).

If your heating guy couldn't tell if it was a pump or a bad motor...that's not good.

Do you have the Buderus 2107 control?

Do you have the Buderus BFU room sensor? What controls the heating in your kitchen?

There are settings that can be adjusted. You may not have enough heat on the radiant system. Is this a recent problem (not enough heat), or a recent problem?

By the way, a mixing valve that is stuck (or simply not moving open or close) would not effect flow at all. It simply would move too much or not enough heat. So, I'm curious about the pump starting to work.

If the guy rotated the mixer mechanism upside down, that's a problem for sure.

I know the Viessmann mixing valve comes apart, yet it's been too many years since I've installed a Buderus mixing valve. I'm guessing it can come apart as well. It could be greased, yet I have dozens of mixing valve installs out there and have never needed to take one apart to grease it or as you say 'clean it'.. As Hot Rod says, it probably can be taken apart.

Now that I typed all of this, I'm sure I'll get a call tomorrow saying their radiant sysyem stopped.

GW

Ah I typed "recent problem " twice, you likely would have understood what I was trying to ask.

Recent or old problem?

What prompted your initial call to the heating co?

What did or didn't change after you dropped your 4 bills with the establishment?

Gary

hot_rod

And it looks like that mixing valve has isolation valves around it, so it should be easy to dis-assemble and rebuild or replace. If in fact the valve is bad. It could be the motor, or the control that tells the valve what to do.

Mare

The ongoing problem is that the guys at the shop I've been using know very little about radiant heat and are not at all familiar with the Buderus boiler. The first issue was a year or 2 ago when I had little to no heat. The house was 57. It was following the annual boiler maintenance, so I felt it was related. After 12 days of being told it was just cold outside and that my system couldn't keep up, I finally downloaded the manual and realized the system had been turned to manual and the boiler water was running 120.
Then last week I noticed my floor was cold. The guys came out and said the mixing valve was sticking and that was the problem. They said I could jiggle the valve if it did it again. And lo and behold it did it again. The temp on the water running through the radiant floor heat is only 125. The boiler is cycling from temperatures as low as 153, which I find surprising given the single digit temps outside.
The bottom line is that I need a heating person other than who I have to maintain this system. There are totally corroded fittings that I feel like should be replaced as we could have another leak. I really need someone who understands this system, and the guys who did have now left that company.

Mare

When I turn the mixing valve all the way to the left it pops out. I can push it in and turn it to the right. That is how it should be, correct?

hot_rod

Usually you can detach or put that control in a manual position, it needs to be fixed or replaced but to get you some heat it can be manually operated.

Where are you located, possibly someone on this site is nearby or has a referral.

Maybe find a manual on line for some guidance.

Mare

Libertyville Illinois

Abracadabra

@Stephen Minnich might be able to help you. He's in SW Chicago suburbs.

GW

Seems like it could be simple 2107 settings. I know this control pretty well.

I can call you, and talk you through a few things

Or try and reach Stephen

gary@wilsonph.com if you want to send me your info.

Abracadabra

I noticed the "Unique" company sticker. I know a couple guys that work for them. They are not what I would call "experts" on hydronic heating. They are more of scorched air "experts".

Ironman

125* will usually be sufficient temp for a PROPERLY designed and installed radiant floor. Do you know any of the details of the floor's construction? Is the tubing attached under the floor? If so, are there aluminum heat transfer plates? Or is it embedded on top of the floor in gypcrete?

There may or may not be anything wrong with the mixing valve. You appear to be assuming that there is based upon what your less than knowledgeable contractor told you.

What type of floor coverings do you have? Have they recently been changed?

You really do need a knowledgeable radiant pro on site. I'd highly recommend that you get Steven Munich out there. Or give Gary a call, but please realize that any of us will be limited by not being there and knowing all the details.

Regarding your question about the $400 bill from your present contractor: since we don't know the specifics of what was done or the market costs for your area, we can't make a determination about the fairness of the bill. That's why discussing pricing is prohibited on this site. I will say though that if the contractor is not competent to do radiant, they should have told you that up front, rathing than sending someone out who doesn't know what he's doing and billing you per hour for his wasted time. If that's what they did.

GW

It's a catch 22 isn't it? All heating contractors get calls saying, 'no heat', then we get there and sure enough it's a bit more than we expected...' Oh, i kinda wish you mentioned you had "this" type of system'. To think that all heating contractors work on any type of heating system is simply crazy talk. Bob, I'm sure you would agree, and I'm sure you've gotten calls that seemed normal at the get go, but once you got there is was not what you imagined, nor 'routine'.

We have some systems out there that definitely do not fall into the 'normal' category

it seems apparent the home owner has used this co in the past- it's a shame the office didn't flag this as a non-typical system.

Anyway, if the radiant is pushing through an R2 floor, and it's staple up, it needs more than 125. We just don't know what she has, and she may not either. We sure hope that the floor is insulated and all the loops are moving water.

A pic of the radiant manifold would be helpful, we could comment more.

Gary

Bill_17

We, Danfoss, handle the ESBE motorized mixing valves and can answer questions directly related to them. In short, parts are available and the actuator knob can be rotated manually and when in this mode, it will pop out (engage) with the internal gears/motor if the motor reaches that position. If that is happening, it sounds like it is working. Beyond that, it is hard to say what is causing the problem as there are many possibilities. Our technical support department can always be reached at 866.375.4822 8:30am to 5:00pm EST.

Tinman

Thanks Bill. I have talked to Mare and will be visiting the site before long. I don't think it's related to the mixing valve yet. The Buderus default for the radiant zone is 122* F and it's delivering 125* F. That's close enough for me. I don't think that parameter has been changed and it sounds like the radiant is either suspended tube or staple up (no plates) based on our discussion. That strategy may work in milder temps but that doesn't happen too often during Chicago winters.

Mare

Thank you, one and all, for your amazing helpfullness! I have no idea why I had no heat that day. As you can see, Steve Minnich as coming out to see my system. It was installed by Unique. If I knew what I do today, it would have been installed by someone else, but what's done is done. Hopefully Steve will service my system going forward!