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A peice of interest.

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Harvey Ramer
Harvey Ramer Member Posts: 2,261
I ran across this a couple weeks ago. I found it mildly interesting because I haven't seen it before. Then again, haven't been around that long either. I may be wrong but it seems to me this trap would cause more of a nuisance then anything.


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  • Tom_133
    Tom_133 Member Posts: 893
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    Harvey,

    We have a lot of house traps in Vermont, I haven't experienced them being problematic. Typically they would pipe a foot vent up off the house side of the trap and out the side of the house. Maybe it's because many of the house in Vt are older, and back in the day they didn't put in much venting. It's typical to see a house trap, a foot vent and a 3" or 4" cast iron line that goes all the way up through the house and out the roof and everything ties into that with S traps under fixtures. I guess if the S trap gets siphoned due to a lack of venting, with the house trap you didn't typically get the sewer smell.
    Tom
    Montpelier Vt
    Harvey Ramer
  • Harvey Ramer
    Harvey Ramer Member Posts: 2,261
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    So in other words this trap was knuckleheaded? I wondered if it shouldn't have had a vent. Whoever installed it must have been in a hurry to get back to the general store and sit around the pickle barrel, chewing a cut of tobacco and bullshitting with the other loafers.
  • KC_Jones
    KC_Jones Member Posts: 5,750
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    I have one in my basement and had a thread on here about it.
    http://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/150900/trap-on-4-sewer-main-in-basement#latest
    About 2/3 down the page I posted some pictures. Most of mine is buried in the concrete so you can't see it. I have seen it from the inside and it's pretty close to what you pictured except mine only has 1 cleanout. I know you aren't too far from me (I'm in Hanover) so maybe it was something in the area many years ago? My brother in law is a plumber in MD and says he has never seen one down there.
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  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,929
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    I've heard of "whole house traps" here in NJ. My sister's previous house had one, it was buried in the backyard with a vent sticking out of the ground a foot or so.

    At the time (1992?) we were told they used to be common but were determined to be unnecessary and cause too many problems.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • Mark Eatherton
    Mark Eatherton Member Posts: 5,853
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    One theory I have heard for its application is that early on, the storm sewers in the streets were combined with the sanitary sewers (they dumped everything into the river) , and the use of a house trap keep rats from invading a persons house...

    I can see how it could definitely be a source of blockage though. If I had one, and my house was properly connected to a proper disposal system, I think I'd eliminate it.

    ME

    There was an error rendering this rich post.

    Harvey Ramer
  • EzzyT
    EzzyT Member Posts: 1,297
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    @Mark Eatherton Your right on that theory the two other reasons for a House trap is before individual fixtures had traps the house trap would prevent sewer gases from the city sewers into the buildings and also when the storm systems and sewers systems are on a combined system which many old cities have, if in case they back up into the building they would flow up the trap vent which vents right outside the building and pours out the vent verses flooding the building via overflowing out of the tubs shower sink and toilets
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    Harvey RamerMark Eatherton
  • Harvey Ramer
    Harvey Ramer Member Posts: 2,261
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    Makes sense, the first solution for the time period's problem.
  • Robert O'Connor_12
    Robert O'Connor_12 Member Posts: 728
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    There still in use in NYC. I Installed a 12" one with lead and oakum at 246 Spring back in 08!
    SoHo Trump actually

    Robert O'Connor/NJ
  • Harvey Ramer
    Harvey Ramer Member Posts: 2,261
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    There still in use in NYC. I Installed a 12" one with lead and oakum at 246 Spring back in 08!
    SoHo Trump actually

    Robert O'Connor/NJ

    That's pretty cool. I guess i'll probably never wipe a lead joint or see one being made.
  • EzzyT
    EzzyT Member Posts: 1,297
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    We still install them all the time in towns/cities in NJ that are still on combined storm and sewer systems
    E-Travis Mechanical LLC
    Etravismechanical@gmail.com
    201-887-8856
  • jonny88
    jonny88 Member Posts: 1,139
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    Believe it or not Harvey sometimes lead is used.Next time will take some pics.In the NYC and Long Island we also use them.On a stoppage you might get lucky and find some jewels at the bottom of the trap.......
  • Harvey Ramer
    Harvey Ramer Member Posts: 2,261
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    jonny88 said:

    Believe it or not Harvey sometimes lead is used.Next time will take some pics.In the NYC and Long Island we also use them.On a stoppage you might get lucky and find some jewels at the bottom of the trap.......

    If you decided to give the jewel to someone, It would probably not be in your best interest to tell her where it came from.
    jonny88KC_JonesMark EathertonSWEI
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,505
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    Follow the pipes.
    A tromploy, but not related to that Trump.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • Mark Eatherton
    Mark Eatherton Member Posts: 5,853
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    No radiant floors eh.... :smile: I think that picture has been photoshopped... But I have felt the same feelings before. Must have been in a dream :wink:

    Not to call anyone out, but in as much as double trapping has been illegal in the code books that I have been reading for the past 30 years, how can an AHJ demand this running trap? "Cause that's the way we've ALWAYS done it", or do they have a valid reason, other than their brother in law owning a drain cleaning service?

    Seems if their concern was drain back up during a storm, they use an approved back water valve, and not a trap.

    ME

    There was an error rendering this rich post.

  • NYplumber
    NYplumber Member Posts: 503
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    @Harvey Ramer nothing wrong with a trap on the sewer. Installed correctly it acts as a safety measure masking the home from the street sewer, catches jewlery if dropped down the drain, and some times stops rats from coming through the sewer into the home.
    The issue with that trap is that it is pitched. The trap has to be level! If not, it turns into a grease trap and builds up gunk. And for the sewer guys out there, its job security. They like when theres a whole house backup from a few baby wipes inside a scaled trap. Pop the plugsn clean, scrape, vacuum the chips and your done.
    :NYplumber:
    jonny88
  • Hilly
    Hilly Member Posts: 428
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    Yeah we required a full sized cleanout and full 3" vent on outside house traps up here too. We have loads of them around here and they do become problematic because they either never had the vent or it gets covered over. We always try to cut them out and replace them. A way to clear a choked one if the clean is available outside is to use a 'dollar store' mop and push it up and down working like a plunger. Sweaty my 'n*ts' off plunger these before, but it worked and didn't cause the homeowner to remove that new front deck or porch extension. I live in the oldest city in North America and it was common practice here. I was always told the reason was every fixture just came off the one 3 or 4" stack without individual vent and the 'house-trap' protected these fixtures if the s-trap ever siphon. I know I didn't say anything new, but just wanted to say I've seen lots.

    I think it's still pictured in our code book, but it is prohibited in a new installation. I'll see if I can get the pic later today.
  • Harvey Ramer
    Harvey Ramer Member Posts: 2,261
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    hot rod said:

    Follow the pipes.
    A tromploy, but not related to that Trump.


    Is that bathroom designed to help people with bowel movements?
    Rich_49
  • 4Johnpipe
    4Johnpipe Member Posts: 484
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    They are prohibited in New Jersey...The waste and venting of the structures actually vent the sewer. Too many man hole covers exploding in years past. Was also a huge issue in Philly
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    ChrisJ
  • Hilly
    Hilly Member Posts: 428
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    Also if installed properly you are installing a crown vent which is also prohibited in Canada.
  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 7,400
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    Nice pipe hanger there!
    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • MikeL_2
    MikeL_2 Member Posts: 506
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    House traps are not that uncommon where I work in CT. I have installed a few to prevent septic odors from wafting down in and around several homes where prevailing breeze, roof lines, tree canopy's, barometric pressure, etc have contributed to the downward flow of offensive odors from the vent stack......................
  • Hilly
    Hilly Member Posts: 428
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    Well I was wrong on some of my comments.
    Building Traps are permitted still and they require clean-out and vent. I've only ever seen one actually installed properly as per the specs below. How long that has been a requirement I'm not certain, but I do have some per-'70 code book (more like a flyer) that I'm going to check out tomorrow if I remember.


    Canucker