Pellet Stoves are amazing!

JohnNY

What.

What's wrong?

njtommy

One of the guys at work heats his house with a pellet stove. Runs electric baseboard when not at home. He likes it I think he said he went throug a bag every two days or so.

JohnNY

Exactly.

Charlie from wmass

Lol if you think parts for mod cons are expensive, try part for a pellet stove.

Gordy

Let alone pellets.

Aaron_in_Maine

There are pellet boilers going in up here a lot nowadays. I don't have any interest in it.

Bob Bona_4

You got yourself a lifestyle. John, you gonna start installing them in NYC? Cool! Next is the ash removal and pellet delivery vans!

njtommy

I considered a pellet boiler or wood before getting natural gas. Still wander if the wood boiler would of been the better way to go. Not sure if the neighbors would of minded, but the gasification ones burn clean.

Fred

njtommy said:

I considered a pellet boiler or wood before getting natural gas. Still wander if the wood boiler would of been the better way to go. Not sure if the neighbors would of minded, but the gasification ones burn clean.

You gotta be kidding, right?

Brewbeer

I put in a fireplace insert a couple of years ago. I went into the store thinking I would install a pellet insert, but came out with a natural gas insert. The price of gas per BTU output of the insert was about the same as wood pellets!

ChrisJ

Our house had a pellet stove when we moved in 2011.

Now it doesn't.

hot_rod

A handful of my neighbors have replaced their wood stoves or inserts with pellet stoves. Most just got tired, or to old, for the wood burning ritual.

In my rural area the only fossil fuel option is LP and when it goes over 3 bucks a gallon the pellets are an attractive option.

Like all manufactured products there are good, better and best options. One neighbor bought a price point PRC import and has not had good luck with operation or parts availability.

Pellet boilers are a big market in Europe as the fuel is easier to store and purchase fuel in large quantities. Pellet boilers are much easier to "drive" and require less buffer storage to keep them running efficiently.

I'd be more interested in chip burners as the process for squeezing pellets is costly and energy intensive.

SWEI

The Austrians (among others) make condensing pellet boilers that are truly amazing. No interest in importing them here --we tried a few years back.

Bob is right, chips are a lot easier to source and have far less embedded energy in their footprint.

ChrisJ

After owning a pellet stove, if I was going for anything like it I'd be going for either wood or coal.

Too much crap to go wrong with a pellet stove and they are a bit pricey. At the time they were cheaper than oil, but a lot more than NG so once the new boiler was running I got rid of it.

That, and the guy that installed it thought it was a good idea to drive screws into the twist lock Duravent at every joint. And, the way it was installed didn't line up with the hole in the wall so it was leaking at the stove. It was a dusty disaster and fact is it didn't have to be had he simply followed the instructions like going up and then out the wall instead of trying to make the stove line up exactly with the hole in the wall. And of course, the screws...... that one really blew my mind.


But yeah, I'd be doing a typical wood stove and a class A vent. Even something like an older Fisher Papabear or even an Army Canon heater pot belly stove. My dad has a Fisher Babybear sitting around but I've really got no place for it.

Gordy

While chips would be nice I don't see a real good feed system with odd size material. Pellets are consistent, and allow a nice dependable feed system to the burner.

Sometimes multiple pellet owners will go in together, and buy bulk semi loads.

SWEI

Some friends of ours have three first generation Quadra-Fire cordwood gasifier/stoves that have been in daily use for probably 25 winters at this point and still burn clean and hot. ISTR an EU engineering team (perhaps from Braun) being involved with the original design.

njtommy

@Fred nope not kidding it's a lot of work, but if you can heat your house and hot water for free other then the labor of cutting wood it's worth it in my mind. My parents went through 8 cords of wood last winter with theirs, but they also have a 3,000sq ft to heat and not very well insulated. I would probably go through half of that with only 1800sq ft and 40-50k heat loss

Fred

Time is money too. I guess it's a trade off as long as you have a source for "free" wood but you also have to consider the other costs, like hauling it, cleaning, if/when the walls get smokey, carpets get tracked with dirt from hauling the wood into the house, cost of chimney/stovepipe cleaning and the work, OMG, the work

Gordy

If the wood is free think about what you can sell it for too. 280 a chord around here. Your 4 cords is more than my ng bill for the year 2000 sf

njtommy

Cleaning isn't an issue for me either growing up my dad way a chimney sweep ran his own business for a long time. I would help out on the weekends if need be and if I was off from work.

Time is money you have me on that one, but I enjoy being out side cutting and chopping wood. It's relaxing to me and a time where I can turn my brain off and do mindless work.

I go through about 2-3 cords of wood a year now in the fireplace and out side fire pit. Although this winter has really been all that cold I haven't even had a fire yet.

Yes I get free wood from a buddy of mine.
I used 630 therms of gas for hot water, heat, and cooking in about 14 months time period about $800-850 for NG. A cord of wood goes for about $200 by us.

ChrisJ

I was always lead to believe if you operate a wood stove correctly, that you'd rarely need to clean the pipe.

Not sure if it's true or not, but that's what I've always been told.

What I can say is if you operate a NG burner correctly you rarely need to clean the pipe.

ChrisJ

BTW,

The only reason @JohnNY created this thread is he has forced hot air in his own home and he's jealous of all of us steam guys.

njtommy

I enough my dusty forced heat pump/ hydroair system. I get long run times with low cfms with 100-105 supply air temps. I'm sure it's not as good as a constant circulation system with panel rads and trvs. But one day I will get there.

hot_rod

Solid fuel heating is a hobby as anything. Many of the wood burners quit the fuel once the fun goes away.
Still other rationalize the fuel for the physical exercise it provides. And it is a renewable energy source, in some areas the fuel is free for the taking.

If you visit some of the chat rooms many are obsessed with the wood and pellet technology, just as we hydronic junkies are.

Pellets just make it a more viable fuel for the average homeowner.

I don't see a pellet heater of boiler being more complicated or expensive to repair than a mod con?

SWEI

hot rod said:

I don't see a pellet heater or boiler being more complicated or expensive to repair than a mod con?

A number of moving parts exposed to high temps -- more likely to require regular cleaning and care. Here's an animation of the KWB design we were tying to import.

Don_197

I served as the Pacific N.W. tech support for Quadrafire for all of last winter (my first foray into that market......was like a bad dream but I learned a lot). Were I to have an application for a pellet stove, I would ONLY buy the QF CB1200. If maintenance is performed as it should be, very reliable and puts out a nice clean scorched air, and even a little bit of radiant. Inserts? Not pellet inserts........no way! The FS models are hard enough to get in and work on! Pellet fuel is where the lions share of bad issues originate......inconsistent from bag to bag not to mention from beginning of season to end of season. Premium Fuel (Olympus in our area) is your only defense against middle of the night frustration. Also.....when it comes to NG or LP on stoves and fireplaces.......the new electronic ignition units are a PITA compared to old reliable thermocouple and thermopile technology. Glad to be out of the retail side of things this year.....hope I never have to do that again. Absolutely amazes me how rude people are when you are just there to help them. "come and take this hunk of crap you sold me and shove it!!!" was a typical morning, afternoon and evening phone call. A lot of angry not nice people out there. I remember leaving work many times thinking "humanity is doomed".

Gordy

Race to the bottom Don.

JohnNY

ChrisJ said:

BTW,

The only reason @JohnNY created this thread is he has forced hot air in his own home and he's jealous of all of us steam guys.

Was it THAT transparent??? Ugh.

Bob Bona_4

Just think of all those nights you could have been blowing down your very own steamer in the comfort and security of your basement. Dang!

Leo_G

Building our place upcountry this spring and am toying with going with a Greenwood indoor wood boiler. Would put either electric or propane as a back up system.

Big problem right now though is being a Canuck, our dollar is diving quick.

And JohnNY, don't feel bad, I have never had hydronic heat either. Right now living with electric baseboard and fan assisted wood burning fireplace.

By the by, guys up country with wood boilers, if they don't want to do the whole tree dropping/limbing/etc. thing, buy a logging truck load of wood. Already limbed, etc. About 17 cords @ 70/cord.

Solid_Fuel_Man

Bottom line with any pellet/wood appliance in the scorched air concept. Solid fuel just adds to the dust and the temperature of the air making it worse with ductwork and fans. I own and operate a gasification boiler and am happy to say that wood and hydronic radiant work very well together. My boiler room is very clean and I can walk in there with my socks on and not worry about getting them dirty. An entire season of wood is stored in there as well as the boiler.

We in the northeast do not have the option of NG yet and most still burn oil. With oil as the standard pretty much any other fuel other than electric resistance are quite cost effective.

The downside of any system that is not completely automated is that there is "the user factor" meaning not only the quality of fuel, but also the operator and how adept they are at actually running the system. Just like all the "de-knuckle-heading" on steam there is much of that in wood heating.

If one is truly interested in it, it is the least expensive option for many people who do not have NG, and the independence of not being tied to a supplier for fuel is an attractive selling point as well.

Taylor

njtommy

@Solid_Fuel_Man
Just out of curiosity how much wood do you go through a season?
How many square feet are you heating?
Which boiler do you?

Solid_Fuel_Man

njtommy said:

@Solid_Fuel_Man

Just out of curiosity how much wood do you go through a season?

How many square feet are you heating?

Which boiler do you?

3,200 sq feet heated space. 3 full cord last winter, that includes 100% of DHW during the heating season via 119gal heat-flo indirect. No other heat sources used. 9560 heating degree days average.
Attack DPX45

Taylor

Gordy

Damn I burn a cord just for fun

Solid_Fuel_Man

To be fair it's all hard maple and yellow/white burch.

Taylor

Gordy

Need to get some hedge. Burns near white hot

ChrisJ

Gordy said:

Need to get some hedge. Burns near white hot

Methane burns pretty damn hot too.

nicholas bonham-carter

Don't forget the exercise component, (keeping us all young), bring in the fuel, and take out the ashes!
When we burned coal in our old steam boiler, the clinkers were a wheelbarrow a day, run up planks on the basement steps, and out behind the barn!
Most likely it's the same with the pellets, in smaller amounts.
It's just like indoor toilets before the piping was put in.--NBC

KC_Jones

My parents go through roughly 3 cords a winter in their fireplace. In addition to that they burn about 300 gallons of oil in the furnace. 2500 sq ft house. The fireplace isn't efficient by any means, but my mother loves the romance. The basement staying at around 75°-78° all winter is a bonus. Wood is still fairly cheap where they live, cheap enough it saves them during the winter. My dad is 70 and still moves and stacks it all himself. As NBC said, keeps them young. I actually just bought him a wheeled cart for bringing the wood into the house, before that he was carrying it all. When I lived there that was one of my chores, after I moved out they stopped using the upstairs fireplace. I guess they didn't want to carry it up all those stairs. lol

bmwpowere36m3

My folks do it as well... wood burning insert in the living room (mostly heats it and the kitchen) as supplemental heat. Dad says he'd easily burn $2500 in oil over the winter when it was ~3/gal here in CT. House is two stories, ~3000 sq ft, but only the first floor is conditioned.

They go thru about 2-3 cords a winter. Dad says it saves him quite a bit on oil, gets the wood for free and splits it in his "free" time. Still finds time to be bored, go on vacation, play guitar, etc... i.e., splitting wood doesn't take that much time/work. Mind you he's 60 and still works 8-5 fixing cars.

Otherwise no real maintenance, they've had the Jotul insert for ~15 years and just replaced the chimney insert so it goes the full 2 stories vs. 1 story (all that was required back when it was installed).

Gordy

So what are pellets going for a bag? Was at menards, and 3.99 a bag on sale. Bag said 8000 btu per bag? Per #? That's expensive no?