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Burnham V73 Oil to Burnham ES25BNI-T Oil to Gas conversion DIY HELP!

AKP5
AKP5 Member Posts: 17
edited January 2016 in Gas Heating
Hi All,

Current system-
Burnham V73 OIL fired tankless hot water heater with 1 zone. Low pressure 121MBH. Simple monoflow with feed and return lines to each rad accessible in bsmt. Installed on 12/98. 275gallon Oil Tank. It was a great combi boiler while it worked. Love the immediate hot water available but disliked how loud it is and the price of oil.

Issue-
Center block is slightly cracked above water line. Common issue with Burnham V73. I used JB weld epoxy to patch it up knowing it was a temp fix which worked 6-7 months. It now needs to be replaced ASAP. I tried the Boiler repair liquid by hercules. Removed the Pressure Relief Valve and poured it in, Increased temperature on aquastat to 180 degrees, turned on boiler, and set thermostat up and it didn't work. Its strange but it seems the boiler repair liquid is not reaching the center section since its spitting clear water from the crack. Any ideas?

Professional QUOTES
Quote 1- Navien 240 combi. split into 2 zones for 1st fl and 2nd floor 2 circulator + 1 Future for bsmt Total of 3 circulators, pressure relief valve, #30 Extrol, "Willow 3000 leak valve", removal of boiler and 275 gallon oil tank. Use existing gas line by "T'ing" off current 3/4" dryer gas line. Very reasonable but after further research on the Navien, i didn't want to go that route.

Quote 2- Require national grid to upgrade meter. Run new gas line from meter to boiler. Install Burnham ES-25 with operating controls, expansion tank and new fill valve. Boiler set up to accomodate 2 zones (one for heating and one for indirect water heater.) Supply new circulater. Supply necessary piping, install necessary smoke pipe and vent damper with spill switch to connect boiler to base of chimney. Vacuum soot and install new chimney liner. Supply and install Super Stor SSU-45 Indirect HWH with relief valve. Remove old boiler and tank. To split the zone for 2nd floor (3 cast iron rads) with 1/2" pex (oxygen barrier piping) , honeywell zone valve, and install honeywell digital thermostat on 2nd floor add $.

Quote 3 - Burnham ES-25 with 2 zones (1 for heat and 1 for indirect HWH). Each zone with its own taco flow valve and circulator. The zones would have individual isolating ball valves for ease of service and be controlled by a taco multiplex relay. New expansion tank, feeder, and air, backflow device and low water cut off device piped to boiler. 40 gallon indirect HWH by Techtanium TT-55. New gas pipe from meter to boiler since 3/4" will not suffice (no meter upgrade necessary). Does not include chimney liner and removal of 275g oil tank.

Quote 4 - labor and material. I have to supply the boiler and Indirect HWH.

Questions (I'm a newbie so please bear with me)
1. Is the Burnham ES25BNI-T a low pressure system? I ask because my current system is low pressure.

2. Which Indirect Hot water heater should i get and need recommendations on an Indirect HWH. Should i get a Super Stor SSU-45 or Burnham Alliance AL50SL or AO Smith or Techtanium TT-55? Key facts: 2 adults and a toddler, 2 deep soak tubs in both bathrooms (we never use it). 3rd full bath with tub will be later added to code in basement.

3. Which additional optional cards should i get for my Burnham ES? I know i definitely need an outdoor reset but should i get the auto or manual reset?

Please let me know if you need additional info.

Thanks in advance!

Comments

  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 11,967
    I think you may have missed the yellow banner above the posting window. :(
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • KC_Jones
    KC_Jones Member Posts: 4,814
    We don't discuss pricing on this site, you should edit your post to remove that information.
    2014 Weil Mclain EG-40
    EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Boiler Control
    Boiler pictures updated 2/21/15
  • AKP5
    AKP5 Member Posts: 17
    will remove pricing
  • KC_Jones
    KC_Jones Member Posts: 4,814
    As a homeowner who has done a ton of my own work, my recommendation based on what you posted, contact a professional and pay for a proper design on the system. I am a huge advocate for DIY, but when it comes to designing an entire system to work properly that is better left to people who know. I am sure plenty of others will chime in with their opinions. Also how did you arrive at the boiler size? I don't see any heat loss calculations in what you posted? You don't size the boiler to the radiation you size it to the heat loss of the building. Just taking a wild guess you bought a bigger boiler than you needed. Slant fin has a heat loss app that you can download (phone or tablet) and run the numbers.
    2014 Weil Mclain EG-40
    EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Boiler Control
    Boiler pictures updated 2/21/15
  • Brewbeer
    Brewbeer Member Posts: 616
    edited January 2016
    I'm also a homeowner, who recently converted a forced air system to hot water baseboard. (see http://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/154385/fha-to-hwb-conversion-project/p1)

    I did the heat loss, baseboard radiation sizing design, radiator installation, and piping to the basement. I left the boiler install and the gas piping to a professional. Professionals have a license, insurance, and the means to provide a warranty. Very important considerations which should not be discounted.

    Some answers to your questions:

    0) First step is an accurate room by room heat loss calculation. With a 1,400 square foot cape I'd be absolutely shocked if your heat loss at a 60 degree design is more than 70k BTU. The 140k boiler you have now is probably double (at least) the size you actually need. The Navien 240 would probably be 3 times the size you need. What are the BTU inputs to the two fireplaces? If they are keeping you warm then you don't need a boiler with a rated output greater than the two fireplaces combined.

    1) You probably don't need more than 20 psi to get water to the top of your radiator system.

    2) Get an indirect large enough to fill your largest tub (50-60 gallons?)

    3) Yes, the boiler should give DHW priority.

    4) If you want a separate zone for each floor you probably should abandon the monoflow loop. Pipe the radiators in each zone in series or through a manifold (1 manifold per zone).

    5) Your existing 3/4 inch natural gas piping (dryer[35k], stove[70k], and (2) ventless fireplaces[guessing 30k each]) is maxed out if not already undersized for the existing connected load. Any quote you have that would tie a 100k+ BTU boiler to the existing 3/4 inch piping should be rejected immediately (quote #1, and maybe #4, hard to say). Review your piping lengths and BTU requirements for each appliance and look at this info to figure out how big your gas line needs to be: http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/natural-gas-pipe-sizing-d_826.html

    That having been said, here is one last bit of advice, and please don't take this the wrong way: your post shows you need substantial professional assistance, the kind that you are not going to be able to get on an internet forum. Hire a pro and pay them to do the job, or pay them to show you how to do it, and have them pull the permits and make sure the boiler (when commissioned) is operating properly with a proper combustion test.
    Hydronics inspired homeowner with self-designed high efficiency low temperature baseboard system and professionally installed mod-con boiler with indirect DHW. My system design thread: http://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/154385
    System Photo: https://us.v-cdn.net/5021738/uploads/FileUpload/79/451e1f19a1e5b345e0951fbe1ff6ca.jpg
    KC_JonesIronman
  • AKP5
    AKP5 Member Posts: 17
    edited January 2016
    Brewbeer, thanks for you honest input. It was very helpful and i appreciate it. I decided I am going to return the Burnham ES2-5 and have a pro do the job. Bob and Ron from technical heating came by yesterday and recommended a Buderus GC124/19 Input:74k, D.O.E. Capacity BTU/Hr 62K. Its a lot smaller (half the btu) than what everyone else has been recommending. I hope it can do the job. They didn't do a heat lost but it seems they are familiar with the style of houses in Long Island. I am just waiting on a quote to get the ball rolling. The Buderus is only 62k BTU so isn't it undersized?
  • Brewbeer
    Brewbeer Member Posts: 616
    edited January 2016
    Unless your basement is a walkout with large windows, or is entirely above grade, heat loss from an insulated, finished basement will be surprisingly small. But again, the only way to know with any reasonable certainty is to perform that detailed, room by room heat loss calculation. You can pay for a pro to do it, you can use an online or downloadable app, or you can use a spreadsheet (which is what I did, see attached to my thread linked above; my decently insulated 2,000 sq.ft. house has a 70 degree design heat loss of about 30k BTU).

    It's not hard to do using a spreadsheet. But any method you use will take time since you need to measure and quantify the areas of all the various different surfaces (walls, ceilings, windows, doors) of each room exposed to the outside (or interior unheated spaces). Or, you could guess and hope to get it right.
    Hydronics inspired homeowner with self-designed high efficiency low temperature baseboard system and professionally installed mod-con boiler with indirect DHW. My system design thread: http://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/154385
    System Photo: https://us.v-cdn.net/5021738/uploads/FileUpload/79/451e1f19a1e5b345e0951fbe1ff6ca.jpg
  • AKP5
    AKP5 Member Posts: 17
    I spent a couple of hours trying to figure it out with the slantfin heat loss calculater and have a feeling i'm doing it incorrectly. Will try the spreadsheet method when i get home tonight. Thanks again Brewbeer. Know any plumbers you recommend in Long Island? Technical Heating company is either too busy to give me a quote or they are just not interested.
  • Brewbeer
    Brewbeer Member Posts: 616
    edited January 2016
    AKP5, you need to wait for the quote. GOOD trades people are always busy. They have plenty of work because they are GOOD. Be patient. I know you need something done ASAP (I was in that boat 6 weeks ago), but it's more important to get the job done right, than it is to get the job done fast.

    Besides, the price to do it right isn't going to change; it is what it is.
    Hydronics inspired homeowner with self-designed high efficiency low temperature baseboard system and professionally installed mod-con boiler with indirect DHW. My system design thread: http://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/154385
    System Photo: https://us.v-cdn.net/5021738/uploads/FileUpload/79/451e1f19a1e5b345e0951fbe1ff6ca.jpg
    IronmanKC_Jones