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Weil McLein ultra 230 boiler installation - comments

JPARCH1
JPARCH1 Member Posts: 2
Hello All,
I stumbled along this webpage, while googling Weil McLein, and became a member as it looks to be a very informative forum. I had a 230 series Ultra Boiler installed 2 months ago in NJ. I have a 4500 sf house and 4 zones. System runs on 2 taco 0014 series circulator pumps. Everything seems to be running ok. I do hear some banging / expansion type noises once the boiler turns on but within 1 to 2 minutes they are gone and the rest of the heating cycle is quiet until the call for heat ends. However if a thermostat calls for heat the noises come back upon startup but dissipate within a minute.

The other day, it was pretty cold and I noticed the boiler had an 'automatic reset' at 2:30 am. What could have caused this? Is there a way to know what triggered it? I have not had any codes or resets in 2 months except for this one on the coldest night so far. I have also attached installation pictures. Any blatant items? We had to work around existing obstructions / piping from the previous boiler removal so it could have been a cleaner setup.
Thank you in advance.
JP
Zman

Comments

  • Rich_49
    Rich_49 Member Posts: 2,611
    Looks like a mess . Who installed this and where in NJ are you located ?
    You didn't get what you didn't pay for and it will never be what you thought it would .
    Langans Plumbing & Heating LLC
    732-751-1560
    Serving most of New Jersey, Eastern Pa .
    Consultation, Design & Installation anywhere
    Rich McGrath 732-581-3833
    CMadatMeJean-David Beyer
  • Boiler wrestler
    Boiler wrestler Member Posts: 43
    My biggest concern(aside from the piping) is that the exhaust appears to be going into a brick chimney. I hope I'm wrong.

    Banging? Hopefully it's just pipe expansion noise.

    Your error codes can be accessed in the contractors menu.

    I have never seen an ez-up manifold cut up for parts before.
  • JPARCH1
    JPARCH1 Member Posts: 2
    Rich, i am located in Paramus area. The piping could have been better aswe had to work around the previous setup, and zone valve layout. The exhaust flue does go into the brick chimney as it did on the previous boilers since 1940. Its not a fireplace chimney and only serves to exhaust boiler and DWH. The intake for the boiler in located in the boiler room. The only reasoning behind cutting the ez-manifold is strictly for clearances. There is very little room to adjust everything.
    Regarding the code, i found out it was a "hi temp rise" error. It only has happened once. Last night it was pretty cold again but did not get a code this morning. Everything i running ok.

    What I really need is to find a local mechanical contractor to perform routine maintenance and to troubleshoot any issues. The guy that installed my boiler resides out in queens NY, so i would prefer a local person near the paramus/hackensack area.

    I appreciate any feedback.
    JPArch
  • Rich_49
    Rich_49 Member Posts: 2,611
    Was not sure if it was my old eyes Wrestler . Does it appear to you also that there is no P/S on this ? Good catch on the vent , I was so busy looking at the piping trying to decipher WTF was going on I completely missed that last night .

    @JPARCH1 , You really need someone qualified in there to straighten that mess out immediately . Not whoever did the install , by the way . The boiler is far too large , bigger is not better . You needed 2 circulators for the boiler and one for Domestic hot water if in fact this makes your hot water . It MUST be piped Primary / Secondary , that's why they sell that manifold someone cut apart .
    The exhaust cannot terminate into that masonry chimney , PERIOD ! The make up air or second pipe that is pvc should also bring air in from outside , pulling air from inside the house is a bad deal for many reasons .
    Air eliminator is located on the wrong side of the system .
    There is too much wrong to describe .
    Contact me through my information to discuss where you are , if not close enough I more than likely know the right guy to fix this for you .
    You didn't get what you didn't pay for and it will never be what you thought it would .
    Langans Plumbing & Heating LLC
    732-751-1560
    Serving most of New Jersey, Eastern Pa .
    Consultation, Design & Installation anywhere
    Rich McGrath 732-581-3833
    CMadatMeJean-David Beyer
  • Zman
    Zman Member Posts: 6,989
    @JPARCH1
    Please contact Rich or another qualified person in your area.
    What you have installed is one of the worst that has been posted here.
    High efficiency boilers cannot be vented directly into a chimney. The condensate is acidic and they are forced draft. The masonry flue will rot out and carbon monoxide will be forced into the home. This presents a lethal danger to the occupants.

    As far as the rest goes, the workmanship is very poor and the layout does not even resemble the manufactures instructions.
    The fact that the boiler heats the house at all appears to be a coincidence.

    Using excuses like existing conditions and "it been like that since 1940" is absolute BS. There is no reason that your boiler could not have been perfectly installed.
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough"
    Albert Einstein
    Jean-David Beyer
  • John Mills_5
    John Mills_5 Member Posts: 935
    You can't vent a condensing product into a chimney!!! Dangerous. Wow.
  • EzzyT
    EzzyT Member Posts: 1,167
    I just recently fixed a similar boiler install mess in Paramus I wonder if both jobs where done by the same company.
  • Rich_49
    Rich_49 Member Posts: 2,611
    JPARCH1 said:

    Rich, i am located in Paramus area. The piping could have been better aswe had to work around the previous setup, and zone valve layout. The exhaust flue does go into the brick chimney as it did on the previous boilers since 1940. Its not a fireplace chimney and only serves to exhaust boiler and DWH. The intake for the boiler in located in the boiler room. The only reasoning behind cutting the ez-manifold is strictly for clearances. There is very little room to adjust everything.
    Regarding the code, i found out it was a "hi temp rise" error. It only has happened once. Last night it was pretty cold again but did not get a code this morning. Everything i running ok.

    What I really need is to find a local mechanical contractor to perform routine maintenance and to troubleshoot any issues. The guy that installed my boiler resides out in queens NY, so i would prefer a local person near the paramus/hackensack area.

    I appreciate any feedback.
    JPArch

    You should contact Ezzy T after getting him to give you his information . All BS aside , this Friggin boiler is an abortion and your family if not now will be in danger of waking up dead at some point in the future . I am not kidding , this thing is not safe .
    Why did you have to pipe around an existing boiler 2 months ago ? 2 months ago it was warm , for that matter it was warm 2 days ago . I get the feeling it took quite some time to screw this install up this bad . If your installer is from Queens , what does he do fior a living because he surer than hell is not earning a living as a hetaing technician .

    Worst case scenario for your 4500 sq ft house is te requirement for a boiler that is capable of outputting 135,000 BTUh . This would require 13.5 GPM at design considering a 20* Delta through your presumed baseboard . You probably have a highest head zone in the neighborhood of 8' of head . The 0014 circ or circs installed will move the required flow rate of the worst case heat loss at 15' of head . You are probably moving 2 gpm . This in itself is certainly the reason for the noise you are hearing and the high temperature event that you stated . When your zone valves open or close the water is being squeezed through the shrinking / growing opening in the zone valve . The noise ceases after the valve is fully open or closed . Water moving too fast with a narrow Delta is not shedding any heat and the boiler sees higher return water temps while still firing and reaches a high limit or a too high temp situation .
    Moving water that fast through your piping and baseboard can also destroy those very things through erosion / corrosion at the turns .
    The Ultra MUST again MUST be piped primary secondary and the circs must be sized properly .
    The pvc used for the exhaust appears that it may also be cellular core pipe .

    Iurge you to get someone who has a clue over there to correct everything wrong with this boiler . Never again use a craftsman that needs money for CRACK .
    You didn't get what you didn't pay for and it will never be what you thought it would .
    Langans Plumbing & Heating LLC
    732-751-1560
    Serving most of New Jersey, Eastern Pa .
    Consultation, Design & Installation anywhere
    Rich McGrath 732-581-3833
    Jean-David Beyer
  • EzzyT
    EzzyT Member Posts: 1,167
    JPARCH1 private message me.
    Rich_49
  • Paul48
    Paul48 Member Posts: 4,470
    Two 0014 in series?
  • Paul48
    Paul48 Member Posts: 4,470
    Forethought= Thinking about it 4 times, then doing it wrong.
  • Paul48
    Paul48 Member Posts: 4,470
    He/She or they spent just as much time trying to make that mess fit as they would have spent cutting it all out and doing a nice neat install. Of course they would have had to read the manual, in order to install it correctly though. The "plan" should not be based on whatever fitting you have in hand.
  • Rich_49
    Rich_49 Member Posts: 2,611
    edited January 2016
    In series with a boiler in between instead of an acceptable length of pipe . RTFM ! But then again , if you don't know what the terms in the manual mean or refer to you're still kinda screwed .

    When was it that someone started building an air introducer ?
    You didn't get what you didn't pay for and it will never be what you thought it would .
    Langans Plumbing & Heating LLC
    732-751-1560
    Serving most of New Jersey, Eastern Pa .
    Consultation, Design & Installation anywhere
    Rich McGrath 732-581-3833
  • Aaron_in_Maine
    Aaron_in_Maine Member Posts: 315
    That is scary that it even works and puts out heat.
    Aaron Hamilton Heating
    [email protected] yahoo.com
    (207)229-7717
  • Robert O'Brien
    Robert O'Brien Member Posts: 3,385
    Give it a couple years and it will look like this! :)
    To learn more about this professional, click here to visit their ad in Find A Contractor.
  • CMadatMe
    CMadatMe Member Posts: 3,085
    Pretty scary.. Aside from the mockery of piping loving that gas appliance connector. Hope you have a Carbon Monoxide detector in that room, if not, go get one!
    "The bitter taste of a poor installation remains much longer than the sweet taste of the lowest price."
    Robert O'Brien
  • Jean-David Beyer
    Jean-David Beyer Member Posts: 2,666
    I have a 1150 square foot house near Red Bank, NJ, and my 80,000 BTU/hr Ultra-3 is about twice the size it needs to be, and it heats my indirect hot water besides. Ultra 3 boilers are supposed to be piped primary-secondary and your pictures are such a mess I cannot be sure yours is done that way, and does not look it. Furthermore, putting the SpiroVent on the boiler return (the coldest part of the system) makes it nearly useless.

    These boilers come with outdoor reset, and if properly adjusted, it greatly reduces expansion noise by always running the lowest possible temperature water through the system consistent with heating your house enough. (It has other advantages too.) My guess is you got as bad an installing contractor as I did. They set the controls up for default reset curve, and did not really want to hook it up at all, since they said it made no difference. No surprise: they are now my former contractor. Well, if you have a seriously oversize boiler, and the outdoor reset adjusted incorrectly, it will not save you any money, and will reduce your comfort and increase your gas bill besides. Now it appears a Sawz-All treatment will be required for the plumbing. Get a real heating professional this time. I am sorry they are so difficult to find.

    I have had mine for 7 years or so, where it has gotten below 3F outside once. Design temperature around here is 14F. Even then only slight expansion noise in the upstairs zone that has fin-tube baseboard. Downstairs is always silent: copper tube in the at-grade concrete slab. I never got a "hi temp rise" error" with mine. None of the errors anything like that in my manual. There are all in the Troubleshooting section of the Boiler Manual, in greater detail.

    TEMP RISE TOO QUICKLY Occurs when supply water temperature in the heat exchanger rises faster than 2F per second during the first two minutes the burner is on.
    SUPPLY 58F > Return Boiler Out temperature has exceeded the Boiler In temperature by more than 58F when burner is on.
    RETURN > SUPPLY Occurs when a return water temperature is greater than the correspoinding supply temperature by 10F or more.
    TEMPERATURE SENSOR Occurs when a temperature sensor has electrically shorted (SHORT) or had become disconnected (OPEN).
    FLUE TEMP TOO HIGH Occurs when flue temperature sensor exceeds 216F
    TEMPERATURE SENSOR Occurs when dual temperature sensors values have spread by more than 10F

    I suspect the one you got is the first one, and I guess it shows that your boiler circulator and your system circulator(s) are not circulating the water fast enough for the boiler size and the actual load size you have. But with the piping you have, it will take a real professional (I am not one of them) to straighten it all out. Perhaps you may be able to use the boiler you have, but you may need a smaller size (say, the 155 Ultra 3 model. But if you must replace, you may wish the equivalent WM97 model.