11 Year Old Burnham Bights The Dust - Questions?

OldAndSteamed

Here is my story -
Bought my house (built 1935) back in 2007. The previous owner had a Burnham oil fired steam boiler installed 11/18/2004 by the oil company. I remained with the oil company, and the boiler was serviced every year, by the same company. Then, last week, the boiler sprung a leak, above the waterline. I was disappointed. After only 11 years of service it failed. After lurking on this site all week, it seems like it may have been caused by oxygen, chloride, etc, causing pits in the cast iron. The same oil company is replacing the unit with a Burnham MegaSteam MST 396. Best that was done for me was US Boiler giving me a 500$ credit on the new boiler.

Questions:

1. Opinions on what caused this boiler to fail?
   
2. What can be done to prevent the new boiler from failing the same way?
   
3. Are there water supply filters to insure effecient steam creation without corroding the boiler?
   
4. Opinions on boiler choice?
   
5. Is there an oil fired steam boiler that can also be used for power generation?
   

JUGHNE

The first suspect is too much fresh water added to the boiler. The oxygen in new water will attack the CI. There may be a auto fill system doing the water adding without you knowing it.

There are only so many "nasites" in a given amount of water that will attack things. But new water added bring in more.

Do you have any leaks that you are aware of?

Please post pictures of your existing boiler from a distance to include piping from floor to ceiling, from all 4 sides if possible.
It could be piped wrong and the next installers will probably duplicate the situation.

BobC

Some areas have chlorides in the water and that is not good for cast iron. How much water was the boiler using per month before it started to leak, if it was over a gallon the leaks have to be found and fixed.

The MST series is as good a oil fired boiler as you are likely to find BUT it is very important how it is piped into the system. If it were me I would want both boiler outlets used and i would pay a little extra to put in a drop header. I would also want a larger diameter header (3" minimum) used to keep the steam velocity down. These two items will cost a few dollars more but they will let that boiler perform very well. Anything above the water line has to be threaded steel pipe -no copper!

This diagram shows how it should be done (alternate piping method. Note it is not necessary to use the wye fitting on the hartford loop, they are hard to find.

Bob

hvacfreak2

[quote]Questions: 1. Opinions on what caused this boiler to fail?

2. What can be done to prevent the new boiler from failing the same way?

3. Are there water supply filters to insure effecient steam creation without corroding the boiler?

4. Opinions on boiler choice?

5. Is there an oil fired steam boiler that can also be used for power generation?[/quote]

Answers ;

1) Lousy NAFTA BS cast iron to start with ( V7 and some V8 ). Anything other than perfect ph water causes them to crumble. I have a pile of sections right outside my house from one of these.

2) Water treatment , and the hopes that the iron is better. I just installed an MST 396 in my house as well , and my fingers are crossed.

3) Not sure about filters , but do a search here about Steamaster and water quality / ph.

4) The MST is the best oil fired boiler on the market .

5) I'm not sure but I'll bet there is an engine available for cogeneration .

Mark N

Find and fix all the leaks. Excessive feed water kills boiler's. You shouldn't use more than 1 or 2 gallons in a year. Check the vents, the packing nuts and the union nut on the rad valves. If you have buried wet returns they are most likely leaking.

Paul48

...

hvacfreak2

I did not get a discount for the failed v-7 either , my salesman at TS , nevermind.

Fred

The Megasteam is an excellent boiler. All the comments above address the typical culprits for CI rot through. On another note, Make sure your new boiler is properly sized for the total Radiator EDR in your home. Did the oil company do a radiator survey or did they just pick the 396 based on the current boiler? Once you complete the Radiator survey, the total EDR should closely match the Boiler Sq. Ft. rating, which on the 396 is 396 sq. ft. of steam. Properly sizing the boiler will save fuel and eliminate a lot of potential pressure/short cycling issues.

Jamie Hall

OldAndSteamed said:

1. Opinions on what caused this boiler to fail?
   
2. What can be done to prevent the new boiler from failing the same way?
   
3. Are there water supply filters to insure effecient steam creation without corroding the boiler?
   
4. Opinions on boiler choice?
   
5. Is there an oil fired steam boiler that can also be used for power generation?
   

What caused the failure? Most likely using too much water. However, if there are any sources of chlorine or chlorides nearby, they can cause trouble (examples are pool chemicals stored in the basement). Rarely, but sometimes errors in assembling the old boiler.
What can be done to prevent failure? Make sure that the boiler is not using much water. A gallon per month maximum, outside of blowdowns (which should be rare, but are needed). Therefore, check the whole system for leaks and fix them. Make sure the burners are getting clean air. Hope your installer puts it together properly.
Are there any water supply filters? Some people like to add Steamaster tablets. Some don't. Filters are completely unnecessary, and chemical addition is a one-shot, since you are not adding water.
Oil fired steam boiler also for power generation? No. Steam heat operates at about half a psi to 1 psi. For at least the last hundred and fifty years, steam for power generation has been at anywhere from a hundred to a thousand times that in pressure. However, one can use the waste heat from a water cooled generator as heat for a building -- but not steam heat, as the cooling system for the generator should not be running at steam temperatures.

OldAndSteamed

Thank you all so much. I appreciate everyone taking the time to reply. I have a VXT -120. How do I tell how much water is being added, so I can monitor the new system?

I have attached some pictures of my current set-up. Should they wash the boiler before starting it? And skim it?

OldAndSteamed

Here are the picture of current system that is broken. I'm currently having to add water daily and watch the steam go up the chimney.

Fred

They should wash out the new boiler before putting it into operation. Skimming it will need to be done several times over the first few weeks to a month after operation as oils will continue to wash back into the boiler from any new piping they install. It's a good idea to add a water meter to the auto feed, if it doesn't already have one. Just keep track of the amount of water that passes through that meter and into the boiler. A weekly check is a good idea. Check everything, valves, vents, mains, joints/fittings, etc. and make sure any leaks are repaired.

OldAndSteamed

#poop

hot_rod

Jamie Hall said:

OldAndSteamed said:

1. Opinions on what caused this boiler to fail?
   
2. What can be done to prevent the new boiler from failing the same way?
   
3. Are there water supply filters to insure effecient steam creation without corroding the boiler?
   
4. Opinions on boiler choice?
   
5. Is there an oil fired steam boiler that can also be used for power generation?
   

What caused the failure? Most likely using too much water. However, if there are any sources of chlorine or chlorides nearby, they can cause trouble (examples are pool chemicals stored in the basement). Rarely, but sometimes errors in assembling the old boiler.
What can be done to prevent failure? Make sure that the boiler is not using much water. A gallon per month maximum, outside of blowdowns (which should be rare, but are needed). Therefore, check the whole system for leaks and fix them. Make sure the burners are getting clean air. Hope your installer puts it together properly.
Are there any water supply filters? Some people like to add Steamaster tablets. Some don't. Filters are completely unnecessary, and chemical addition is a one-shot, since you are not adding water.
Oil fired steam boiler also for power generation? No. Steam heat operates at about half a psi to 1 psi. For at least the last hundred and fifty years, steam for power generation has been at anywhere from a hundred to a thousand times that in pressure. However, one can use the waste heat from a water cooled generator as heat for a building -- but not steam heat, as the cooling system for the generator should not be running at steam temperatures.

What caused the failure? Most likely using too much water. However, if there are any sources of chlorine or chlorides nearby, they can cause trouble (examples are pool chemicals stored in the basement).

You are onto something here with chlorides. I have been doing a lot of research on water quality for the next Idronics issue, Chlorides come up a lot when talking with water and hydronic experts. Notice the full page cautions being added to boiler installation manuals on water quality as of late..

Chlorides are naturally occurring in water supplies. The folks that deal with water treatment on a daily basis tell me chloride levels are increasing in the samples they see from across the us, some extremely high % in the northern midwest area..

My theory is the chemicals we use on the roads, more of them used more often, even before storms arrive, those chlorides end up in our aquifers, and in our potable water sources.

Several areas are trying non chloride based de-icers, they all have some drawbacks.

Water samples from areas with ag operations are showing increases in sulphates, some will say due to the fertilizers getting into aquifers.

A few critical steps for new boiler installs, clean the system with a hydronic cleaner product, get rid of the oils and solder flux. Take a look at the ingredients in solder flux, chlorides are one common components.

Test the site water for ph and TDS. Treat the site water or haul good quality water to the job.

I'm a proponent of hydronic conditioners. They add a few micron thick film layer to protect the metals, O2 scavenger, ph buffer, and polymers to keep solids in solution and prevent them from settling out, good insurance of all systems.

Here is a piece of the boiler tubes I cut out of a boiler I installed about 6 years ago. The Rhomar hydronic conditioner put a fine film inside the stainless coils of the HX. It looks like someone took a magic marker and lightly coated the metal surface. That thin barrier layer protects the metal surfaces from aggressive water attacks. I'm a believer after seeing an actual cutaway section.

The manufacturers of stainless and aluminum boilers should insist on a clean and treat program.
The old MZ boilers shipped with a bottle of corrosion inhibitor in the carton, and that was over 20 years ago!

Canucker

@hotrod i'm willing to bet that you're right about the chloride coming from the road salts. We use regular, potable water in some of our processes and due to FDA guidelines, we need to prove it was below certain established thresholds. It gets tested monthly and every year, right around the spring melt, chloride levels spike to a point usually 3 times higher than the rest of the year

hvacfreak2

I just think that cast iron is not as good as it once was. I can see the other factors contributing no doubt about that. But I'm sure that someone at a foundry is screaming about cutting costs and increasing profit , reducing the amount of some component in making cast iron ( nickel maybe ). He is eating at Ruth's Chris while boilers are rotting .

SWEI

Thinner castings lead to higher efficiency numbers. Throw in with poor installation practices, poor maintenance practices, and poor water quality...

ChrisJ

Install the Megasteam properly and install all new quality vents on all radiators and the mains. I'm a big Gorton fan but Hoffman and Vent-Rite are also good. Fix all leaks, check packing nuts etc.

Clean boiler well and after the water is clean start using 1 to 2 tablets of Rectorseal Steamaster.


IMO the cast iron isn't as good as the old stuff but there's nothing you can do about that. This is why using little makeup water and using a good water treatment is important.

The previous owner of this house had the same model boiler as you and it rotted out once after 3 years and again after 5 years. Our next door neighbor has a 1920s boiler that's still going even after using a ton of makeup water for years. There's an obvious difference.

heatguy

Really nice to see a bunch of old familiar names and new ones too.I used to tell customers to overfill boiler at end of season and let steam main get hot to remove free o2 from water therefore removing one of the components of corrosion , not sure if it works but it can"t hurt.Really great to see the sight still up and running.

Unknown

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