Help...Could larger than normal pipe cause inaccurate meter reading?

johnnyh

HI everyone and thank you for allowing me to join this forum! I need an opinion about a problem and the possible cause. Here is my story and for the record I am the homeowner with little plumbing experience.

Last year National Grid installed Natural Gas Service to my street. This was a new install as our street never had any gas service. This is a Low pressure area, all of our meters are Low pressure. National Grid installed 6 inch mains to the street. I installed a Prestige "Solo" wall hung unit and I also have a Napoleon fireplace insert, I believe the fireplace is rated at approximately 24k btu. I had mentioned to the gas company that I was considering a future installation of a whole house generator and they recommended a 2 inch gas line be brought up to the meter, from the street and under my lawn to the AC-250 gas meter. There was talk that once I installed the whole house generator that they may need to return to install a larger gas meter, the next size up but since I wasn't ready to install the generator at that time the AC-250 meter would be fine. So we have a 6 inch main on low pressure then a 2 inch line from the street to the meter but the size is reduced to make the proper/standard size connection at the meter bar. Obviously the 2 inch line can't connect to the AC-250 meter.

Let me say that the heating system is running fine but I am becoming very suspicious that the piping may possibly be causing my gas meter to over read my usage. That's where my question is heading.

After gas company brings that gas to my home my plumber takes over. Knowing that I'm considering a whole house natural gas generator the plumber installs from the meter bar which is located at the front of my home, a 1 1/2 inch pipe and runs that it into my home. This 1 1/2 inch pipe runs approximately 25 feet to the rear of the house and then is capped for the future installation of the generator. Within 3 or 4 feet from it's entry point a smaller pipe is connected to the 1 1/2 inch pipe. I'm not sure of it's size ( possibly a 1 inch pipe) and this smaller pipe runs approximately 21 feet to a "T" and then is reduced again to another 4 foot run to the Prestige "Solo" and reduced further to the fireplace insert.

So with all of this information and I apologize for the lengthy details , here's my problem. My two neighbor's monthly heating bills are much lower than mine. To give you a accurate comparison, my gas meter today reads 875 vs. the other Prestige unit at 496. This is after one year as our gas mains were installed in November of 2014. My neighbor is elderly so she is home more often than my wife and I are but we do keep the heat up in one room during the day for out Shih Tzu. I should also tell you that I live in Rhode Island in southern New England.

All three of us have high efficiency combination boilers. One neighbor has the exact same unit as I do and the other has an NTI/Trinity boiler. All three homes are well insulated and they are all hot water baseboard systems, the exception being that my hot water system is a Venturi system that has bleeder valves. My home is larger at 1454 sq feet vs. 1120 for each of the other two houses. I have 4 zones but one zone is for the basement that we almost never use. The other homes have 2 zones.

The thing that really makes me suspicious is the way the gauge on my gas meter moves. The circular hands on my neighbors meter tends to pause for a good amount of time when the units are calling for heat. Maybe 3/4 of a turn then a pause for 45 seconds or so, then another approximate 3/4 rotation and again a pause. On my meter I don't really see his pause, sometimes there is a pause but not as much and not as often.

So with all this, here's my question. Does anyone think that the unusual pipe sizes could be causing an incorrect meter reading? The plumber didn't think so at first but he seems to be re-thinking my concerns. I'm thinking of having the pipe from the meter bar reduced to a normal installation size. I don't mind paying the expense for the re-piping but I'm not sure if it will address my concerns and if I'd just be wasting time and money. I should also say that I am now leaning against the generator so any future piping concerns for that unit won't factor into my thoughts of re-piping. Honestly, for a 14 k generator I'm not even sure I needed the larger piping.

The only thing I can come up with is that the larger 1 1/2 inch pipe from the meter bar into the house somehow reduces pressure on the meter allowing it to spin more freely??? My friend is a fireman and he thinks the piping might indeed be the issue but he's looking at it more of a volume issue rather than a pressure issue. National Grid didn't find any leaks but they are only looking at it from the street side to the meter. There aren't any leaks inside the home! I'm starting to think that I am not thinking clearly about this but I know something isn't right. Does anyone have any thoughts?

Thank you again!!!

Ironman

The size of the pipe does NOT effect how the meter functions.

If there are no gas leaks, then I would look at how you system is setup and how you operate it. 4 zones on a mod/con is usually not a good idea as it can cause it to short cycle which in turn will reduce its life and efficiency.

Are you sure the envelope of your house is tight?

I've got a diesel pick up. With no load on it, it gets about 17 mpg on the highway. If I hook a 12k lb. trailer to it, it gets about 12 mpg. More load requires more fuel. Same truck, same engine, same size fuel line.

ChrisJ

The size of the pipes did technically effect your meter readings but only for the first few seconds or so when they had to be purged of air and filled with gas because larger pipes hold more gas. Once they were filled, the only thing that meter counts is what your appliances or leaks (hopefully you don't have these) consume.

Gas meters use bellows to literally measure the volume of gas flowing through the system. They are incredibly accurate and do not care what size of pipe is hooked on the inlet or outlet, it makes no difference.

DO NOT have the size of the pipe reduced, there is no point and you're only hurting yourself in the end. The pipe sizes aren't skewing your meter readings.

ChrisJ

BTW, here's a decent video of an older gas meter being taken apart. I'm sure there are slight variations out there but they all function like this.

https://youtu.be/8v4jteZUaxc

JUGHNE

Because you requested a larger meter setup the paperwork may have been entered as to charge you at a higher pressure multiplier. I believe NG is sold on the basis of cubic feet passed thru the meter and the pressure applied. (Product of 2 factors).

That doesn't explain the difference in your comparison to the neighbor present reading. Are you sure both meters were at zero when first connected? Not every "new" meter is new.

You could clock the meter, your boiler would have to fire at 100% and all other gas off. The result of this should very nearly match the nameplate of the boiler.

A picture of your meter showing outside piping & regulators would maybe tell something. And a close up of the dial face also.

ChrisJ

@JUGHNE This is the first I'm hearing of them charging for pressure. Why would that be a factor?

ChrisJ

Also, 1454 sq feet vs. 1120 sq feet is a pretty decent increase in size.

What temperatures are maintained in all 3 places?

My assumption is either your keeping your place warmer, or your building isn't as tight and insulated as you believe it to be.

johnnyh

Wow , thanks for your comments and fast replies! Couple of things: I had the house tested , I think it was a reverse pressure test where they close windows and doors and place a fan on a door to test how tight the house is. I was told the ideal # would be 2135 and my # came in at 2210. The engineering company told me that the number was very close to optimal This was just last month as I had the house checked and there were a couple of measures done. One was that they placed insulation on the basement sills and the other was that 7 recessed cans were tightened up with the new LED lights to prevent air at the ceiling from escaping into the attic. Before those measures the house came in at 2576. Over the summer I shut down the pilot light on the fireplace and then turned off the power to the boiler. After about 6 hours I checked the gas meter and it had not moved and I'm confident that there are no leaks at all. The home had 3 zones when we bought it and about 15 years ago I added a room in the basement an had 10 feet of baseboard installed. I won't change the size of the pipe. It sounds as though everyone agrees that the larger pipe out from the meter is not a factor other than a tiny fraction on start up due to air. I'm sure the house it tight and I suspect it is just as tight if not more than my neighbors. I just saw my other neighbor and his meter was 589, higher than my other neighbor. I guess my next experiment could be to set my thermostats exactly as his and compare the usage results on our next meter read. I could set all of the 3 thermostats at identical settings to his one thermostat.

ChrisJ

Your meter registered 875 since what date?
My house is just over 1600sqft and I use around $1500 in NG per year for heating,, hot water, cooking (stove and outdoor grill) and clothes drying.

We are not allowed to discuss pricing here, but I assume Dan won't mind me mentioning my natural gas bill.

I'm going to assume you're paying quite a bit less than I am?

johnnyh

Also, all of our meters started at 0. I figure my home is 29% larger than my neighbors based on square footage. The boilers have similar 95% eff. or so. If I set my thermostats exactly as theirs it might give me a good clue. Yet as I look at my numbers my usage is somewhere between 48% and 75 % higher and I suspect it will be difficult for me to reduce my usage that much with a new thermostat setting. Only one way to find out and even if the thermostats are not calibrated exactly they should be close. I'll work on a photo or two and send.

ChrisJ

What about bathroom fan / kitchen fan usage? How often and how long are doors opened to the outside?

How much sun exposure does your home get vs theirs. How many windows do you have and how many do they have?

There are many variables, I doubt the thermostat's calibration will matter. Did you ever have a combustion analysis done on the boiler?

johnnyh

Here is one photo

johnnyh

Here is a front photo of the meter. Did I say thank you

ChrisJ

Well,
One thing is for sure, those fittings and nipples need to be cleaned up real good and painted. Most would consider that a hazard.


I'm glad to see I'm not the only one that had problems with that. So far, since 2011 I've painted mine 3 times.

johnnyh

I've received 12 monthly bills. The meter reading at the end of the most recent bill was 848. The cost fees for that period of time came to $1234.96 . I hope it is okay to post this information as I did not say what the charge per CCF is.

KC_Jones

johnnyh said:

Also, all of our meters started at 0. I figure my home is 29% larger than my neighbors based on square footage. The boilers have similar 95% eff. or so. If I set my thermostats exactly as theirs it might give me a good clue. Yet as I look at my numbers my usage is somewhere between 48% and 75 % higher and I suspect it will be difficult for me to reduce my usage that much with a new thermostat setting. Only one way to find out and even if the thermostats are not calibrated exactly they should be close. I'll work on a photo or two and send.

Also how do you know you are running at 95%? Just because the boiler is rated for that does not mean you are getting it. You do realize that correct? What supply and return temperatures are you running? It's about system efficiency not just the boiler. The boiler can only do what the system allows for and how the installer set it up. If you don't have enough baseboard and need to run at high temperatures the 95% efficient boiler may have been a waste of money. There are so many variables here comparing to anything except a house absolutely identical to yours is futile. Even then there are other environmental factors that could contribute as Chris mentioned.

johnnyh

My neighbor with the lowest reading is on the same side of the street as I am , sun and wind etc. should be similar. The other neighbor with the meter in the high 500 CCF has more sun exposure.

johnnyh

I think I am starting to feel better knowing how much you are paying. They look similar though when account for sq. ft. Thanks for that.

johnnyh

No, never did a combustion analysis on the boiler, but it is brand new.

johnnyh

Maybe I could clock it?

ChrisJ

johnnyh said:

I think I am starting to feel better knowing how much you are paying. They look similar though when account for sq. ft. Thanks for that.

Like I said, I don't think Dan cares about what anyone pays for natural gas, he doesn't want to cause friction between contractors.

I figured what I pay would make you feel better, but I'm running an 82.9% steam boiler in a 150 year old house with mostly original windows. I maintain 72F and am in NW New Jersey.

Zman

JUGHNE said:

Because you requested a larger meter setup the paperwork may have been entered as to charge you at a higher pressure multiplier. I believe NG is sold on the basis of cubic feet passed thru the meter and the pressure applied. (Product of 2 factors).

That doesn't explain the difference in your comparison to the neighbor present reading. Are you sure both meters were at zero when first connected? Not every "new" meter is new.

You could clock the meter, your boiler would have to fire at 100% and all other gas off. The result of this should very nearly match the nameplate of the boiler.

A picture of your meter showing outside piping & regulators would maybe tell something. And a close up of the dial face also.

I agree, clocking the meter is a good way to tell if the meter is way off...

njtommy

Could your boiler be short cycling?
Are you running an out door reset control?

ChrisJ

Zman said:

JUGHNE said:

Because you requested a larger meter setup the paperwork may have been entered as to charge you at a higher pressure multiplier. I believe NG is sold on the basis of cubic feet passed thru the meter and the pressure applied. (Product of 2 factors).

That doesn't explain the difference in your comparison to the neighbor present reading. Are you sure both meters were at zero when first connected? Not every "new" meter is new.

You could clock the meter, your boiler would have to fire at 100% and all other gas off. The result of this should very nearly match the nameplate of the boiler.

A picture of your meter showing outside piping & regulators would maybe tell something. And a close up of the dial face also.

I agree, clocking the meter is a good way to tell if the meter is way off...

What if the appliance is firing way off?
I'd assume the appliance was off before the meter.

rick in Alaska

With your neighbors meter pausing during cycles, I would wonder more about that one. Maybe you have the good one?
Just a thought.
Rick

johnnyh

Ok, trying to catch up on a few of your questions. The boiler supply and return temps vary as the boiler has an outdoor temp sensor. We have hit button to "Restore Factory Settings:

I spoke with a rep from the factory and they basically told me not to turn down the thermostats more than 4 degrees as it would cost more energy to do so. The point being that I have a limited understanding of short cycling but yet I do understand how short cycling is less efficient, but I'm not so sure that it true with this unit as the firing rate is computer controlled and thus can vary from 1 % to 100% firing rate. Assuming of course that the boiler is functioning as it is supposed to.

There is a ceiling fan in the bathroom. Also, just for the record, I wasn't trying to go with a high efficient unit but I certainly wanted a tankless water heater. To be fair, it had just as much to do with space then a high eff. rating. I figured if I was going to go tankless for water than why not make the entire unit so. Well it's not completely tankless as the boiler has a water tank of something like 13 gallons but it's a wall unit and space saver with at Rated 95% eff.

The neighbor at 589 ccf has their thermostat set at 65 degrees day and overnight and 68 degrees evening and morning. I guess I can go with those settings for a month and then compare a bit more. I get all of what you guys are saying but for me to use a minimum of 48% more ccf with only a 29% larger home has me confused. It just seems like a big difference in ccf between the other two neighbors who have high eff. units. To be honest, there are about 10-15 homes that converted to gas and I'm higher than each one that I have spoken with but I haven't spoken to all of them. All the other homes have forced hot air and less efficient boilers but I didn't compare them as the forced hot air is certainly different than a hot water based system.

Ironman

As pointed out, your boiler is only 95% efficient when the return water temp is 120*. If it's 160*, your at about 88%. Again that's boiler efficiency, not system efficiency.

The boiler came with a feature known as Out Door Reset. What it does is to adjust the water temp supplied to the system based upon outdoor temp. The colder outside, the hotter the water and vise versa. By lowering the water temp to match the load, the boiler operates more efficiently. This feature requires installing the outdoor sensor supplied with the boiler and activating and adjusting the ODR curve properly in the boiler's programming. 70% of installers fail to use ODR even though it part of the boiler's control system. Most simply don't know how.

Is your boiler supplying the same water temp regardless of outdoor temp? If so, then your ODR is not functional and your wasting fuel and actually getting LESS comfort.

I mentioned previously that 4 zones on a mod/con boiler is not a good scenario because it will cause the boiler to short cycle which will result in reduced efficiency a greatly reduced boiler life. Having one zone with only 10 feet of baseboard is a disaster. That's only a 500 btu load on a boiler that has a minimum firing rate of over 20,000 buts. That's 1/40th of what it should be. You need to combine those zones or else install a buffer tank to prevent the short cycling.

Your installer should have done a combustion analysis and set the boiler up with a digital analyzer. That's in the instructions and it's mandatory.

It's sounding like you didn't get the most knowledgeable (ahem) installer and there are some serious issues that need to be addressed.

Where are you located? I'd recommend that you try the contractor locator on this site to see if you can get someone out to evaluate your system.

johnnyh

And also just for the record, I haven't ruled out the boiler itself but I was trying to find any variables and considering the other two neighbors had HE wall hung units one being identical to mine by the same installer, I thought the most obvious variable was the piping. For a layman, larger pipe with a larger monthly usage, well the size of the pipe seemed the most logical place to start. The Venturi hot water system vs. new hot water systems is also a variable that I was thinking about. The bottom line is the larger home to me just doesn't seem to justify the % of higher usage. Again, I'm not experienced in plumbing but I'm not too bad in math. Perhaps there is an exponential component to the larger Sq. that I am not taking into consideration? Home is about as tight as it can be without being too tight. Certainly the boiler itself could be a factor but again we restored the unit to it's factory settings. There always is the and it would probably be cheaper than new piping,, would be to run a certified test on the unit by another contractor.

johnnyh

Hey Ironman,
Very interesting. couple of things. You certainly could be correct about the adjusting the ODR curve I can't say the installer did or didn't adjust the ODR. However, I'm confident that the ODR is activated, for two reasons. The first reason is that I have two kick heaters in my home, one in the kitchen and one in the bathroom. On cool but not cold days the kick heaters no longer turn on. Knowing that they have some type of internal thermostat I'm assuming that the temperature in the copper pipe feeding the heaters isn't high enough. The other more obvious reason I suspect the ODR is at least active , again I can't confirm that the ODR's curve has been adjusted; is that I can see different temperatures on the supply and return side on cool vs. cold days, etc. On the boilers screen. It sounds as though the ODR is working.

As for the 10 feet of baseboard I do understand your point, it's well taken. However, to be fair, I have not turned on that zone once this season. I agree that is isn't an efficient way to heat a 200 sq. foot room in a mostly unfinished basement but if I hardly use it then it shouldn't be much of a factor.

My final comment is that I get your point regarding 120 degree efficiency vs efficiency at 160 degrees. I don't fully understand why but that doesn't matter. My only response is that, even if my boiler was operating at 78% efficiency and even if we assume that my neighbor's Prestige unit is operating at 95 %. Adding to the equation that my home is 29% larger, I still don't believe those two factors can make up the difference between my boiler and my neighbor who has the exact same boiler. She's used 496 ccf and I've used 875 ccf in 12 months. Same side of the street, etc. She sets her heat at 70 degrees 24 hours in one zone but 60 in her bedrooms. She has two bedrooms on the same zone and the remainder of the home on the other zone. I know my gas usage should be higher but I just can't explain why I'm using over 75% more in ccf. That's a tremendous difference. BTW, I forgot to answer that I keep my heat at 60 in two zones and 66 in the other zone during sleeping hours & 66 during weekdays in one zone, 63 in the other two zones. In the evening we are close to 69 in most of the three zones.

That's why I kept thinking it was the size of the pipe. I'd sure be interested if anyone can share a link that show a residential gas meter being tested with different size piping. I know it isn't the pipe after hearing from this group but I just can't account for the substantial difference in meter readings, even when I compensate for the size of the home and thermostat settings.

One last thought, my neighbor with the exact same boiler also has a gas dryer but no fireplace insert. It's not perfect I know but as a layman I do feel that the the comparison is more apples to apples than not. It sounds as though my next approach should be to locate a certified contractor from the manufacture's website to perform an analysis.

kcopp

No one has asked about the Gas insert....
Those things can suck up a huge amount of gas...even on Pilot.

JUGHNE

I may be speaking out incorrectly, but I believe the name "Heating Help" implies not only help with equipment dilemmas, but also improving the efficiency of that equipment and the upgrading the envelope of the structure to save energy.
So I think we can discuss fuel consumption and rates we pay.

(If not Dan can reach out and "dope slap" me into line.)

For comparison I heat 2350 sq ft on ground floor also heated finished basement. Attached 3 car garage of 1000 ft stays above 55 degrees most of the winter. 7246 HDD is the normal, I use -10 as design temp for heating projects here.
From 10-31-2014 to 10-30-2014 my meter registered 788 CCF, summer hot water usage is 25 to 30 CCF. We pay an average of $1.10 to $1.20 per CCF.

I am glad to see some other comparisons of CCF and sq ft.
Our efforts towards passive solar and R values, but mainly air and vapor sealing have seem to paid off.

Our Mod Con that runs at 120 degrees output most of the time so I am in the condensing mode most of the time.

Johnnyh, Speaking of condensate, the more water coming from the condensate line the more the boiler is in the condensing mode and is running at higher efficiency. If your return temps are high then you will not condense and lose perhaps 10% or more of advertised efficiency.
I wonder if condensate collection and measurement compared to the neighbor hood bears any validity?? (sounds crazy, I know)

JUGHNE

Chris, when OP said he was set up for commercial size meter, I thought perhaps he was paying a commercial rate. But seeing how all meters started at zero then we are talking CCF numbers only. Here there are some pressure multipliers applied to agriculture. The person I need to ask was busy today, I will try to catch him tomorrow.
Jerking meter wheels are not good when trying to clock a meter, I had one doing that, it was fairly old. NG meters get changed out every few years. I contended with electric customers who were certain their meter was running fast. Any mechanical device will, if anything, usually slow down with age.

Ironman

--"That's why I kept thinking it was the size of the pipe. I'd sure be interested if anyone can share a link that show a residential gas meter being tested with different size piping. I know it isn't the pipe after hearing from this group but I just can't account for the substantial difference in meter readings, even when I compensate for the size of the home and thermostat settings."--

I seriously doubt that such testing has ever been done since it would prove to be an exercise in futility.

Let me illustrate it this way:
Suppose you live in an apartment building that has 50 units. At this particular moment, you're the only one awake and you turn on your shower which has a head that uses 2gpm. The building has a 6 inch water main feeding it. How much water is being used and how much will the water meter show being used? Simple: 2 gpm because that's what's actually being used.

Now there's a house right across the street with the same shower head in use. It has a 3/4 in water main. How much is it using and what will its meter read? The same thing because that's what's actually going through the pipe! It makes no difference if it's a 6 inch pipe or a 3/4 as long as it's large enough to carry the demand. The pipe does not force more through because it's larger. The appliance DRAWS what it requires from the pipe.

Get the picture?

johnnyh

HI Ironman,
I get what you are saying and it makes sense. Honestly I do. The size of the pipe, as long as it is large enough to meet the demand of the appliance doesn't matter. Well it at least doesn't matter for the point of this thread. If a shower head uses 2 GPM, the pipe that feeds it whether the correct size or oversized, will not use more water that the shower head allows. Same thing with my boiler, if it has a rating of 175k btu , for example. Well it won't use more than 175k btu no matter how large the pipe.

I wasn't thinking exactly along the lines of the size of the pipe Using more gas, but I was wondering if the larger than normal pipe could possibly be allowing the meter to speed. I was thinking that the issue could be less resistance due to the larger than normal 1 1/2 inch pipe, pipe inside the home,, not the 2 inch inlet to the meter. So I understand that a low pressure 2 inch pipe into the meter and a 1 1/2 inch pipe into the home should have equal pressure when the appliance is not running.

However, once the appliance call for gas, I was starting to wonder if the meter might feel less resistance from the larger than normal 1 1/2 inch pipe into my home and thus spin more easily. My suspicion was that the larger pipe might be fooling the meter. The pipe would still have enough volume but possibly the meter could feel less pressure.

I'm sure that I am not the first person to be suspicious of a meter due to a higher than expected gas bill. As far as i can tell I'm using more gas then you once i factor in the size,and temp of your home and not to mention steam. Jughne's usage is also under my usage, I know lots of factors involved.

Once I find someone with a 1 1/2 inch line from the meter bar of an ac-250 meter, who feels their usage is true I'll be completely convinced. I know you must be correct but it just doesn't feel good not understanding the answer. Have a good night and thanks again.

johnnyh

Good point Kcopp! It's a B vent unit and that reduces efficiency even more. I did a test last winter for a month with the insert shut down. I didn't notice much of a difference with the bill. No noticing much of a change in the bill made my suspicions about the pipe increase. Thank you though, as it was an excellent thought.

j a_2

Honestly I totally agree, your gas bill is based on cubic feet of gas that travels thru the meter...period....if one of the dials is sticking as you say clock it with the other...you most definitely can have a mod con with smaller zones...if it's installed correctly HTP has the pioneer with the buffer in it....try this go thru your program an see how many hours and how many cycles your boiler has run....once your boiler runs over approx 140 f your no longer condensing ......a condensing boiler wants to condense....if not, something is wrong in your set up

Ironman

johnnyh said:

HI Ironman,
I get what you are saying and it makes sense. Honestly I do. The size of the pipe, as long as it is large enough to meet the demand of the appliance doesn't matter. Well it at least doesn't matter for the point of this thread. If a shower head uses 2 GPM, the pipe that feeds it whether the correct size or oversized, will not use more water that the shower head allows. Same thing with my boiler, if it has a rating of 175k btu , for example. Well it won't use more than 175k btu no matter how large the pipe.

However, once the appliance call for gas, I was starting to wonder if the meter might feel less resistance from the larger than normal 1 1/2 inch pipe into my home and thus spin more easily. My suspicion was that the larger pipe might be fooling the meter. The pipe would still have enough volume but possibly the meter could feel less pressure.

What you're failing to consider is that even if that were possible (it's not), then more gas would be burned and you would have more heat being added to your house. A cubic foot of natural gas has on average a caloric value of 1,000 buts. Give or take. If more is going through the meter, then more is being converted to heat going into your house.

The meter measures; it doesn't "feel" and it doesn't "speed". A tape measure measures. One board at a time. It doesn't matter if there's just that one or a hundred more after it; it still only measures the one it's on. If the meter turns faster, that's because there's more cubic feet of gas passing through it.

I'm sure you've gone through a turnstile at a ball park. It doesn't matter how many people are behind you in line. Whether it's 10 or 10,000, the turnstile records each person passing through one at a time. The gas meter records each cubic foot of gas drawn through it. It doesn't matter how many more the pipe is capable of delivering, it only measures what comes through. The meter doesn't know anything about resistance from the pipe. It's not making the gas flow through it. Instead, the gas that IS flowing through it is what makes the meter turn.

It is possible, but highly unlikely, that the meter is out of calibration. But in all reality, it's correct and you're using the amount of gas indicated.

JUGHNE

I have an 1 1/4" pipe connected to my meter which is just like yours. If your logic is the volume inside the pipe, then my 1 1/4" service line is over 100' fm meter to boiler. That might be 4X the length of 1 1/2" you have but I probably have more volume in the pipe. Does that help clarify a little? (you have my NG CCF above.....that typo should be 2014 thru 2015 BTY).

Also is your FP insert stuck inside of a large older masonry fireplace. Brick fireplaces add a lot of conductive heat loss to a room. Extra heat loss is added to a survey, that area is considered the same as a cold concrete or brick wall.
Especially if they are on a exterior wall and have a cold exposed chimney. Your neighbor hood comparison homes may or may not have this feature. The blower door test would have told you if there are air infiltration issues for FP, but not pointed out the conductive losses.

Little items, hot water usage, high return water temp lowering boiler efficiency. Also the amount of exposed basement wall above grade is a factor. Attic insulation. Wall insulation which you can't see and may have settled or not put in correctly originally. Exterior siding or brick may be different for each house. How old is your house, maybe you said and I missed it.

johnnyh

HI Guys,
All good points. I have quite a bit of homework to do but it does seem that my goal should be to clock the meter. I'll clock it with the fireplace insert itself with the boiler off, and then I will clock just the boiler with the FP pilot off. Maybe I can also clock at least one of my neighbors. Also, I can take a look at the usage on the boiler and compare it to my neighbors. That's an excellent idea that I should have researched before asking my question. All in all I think we have completely exhausted this thread and I've learned quite a bit. Also, here's a link that I will be using.

http://homeenergypros.lbl.gov/profiles/blogs/clocking-a-gas-meter

Thanks to all of you!

JUGHNE

But wait,, there's more! Simple deduction for hot water heating. Look at your monthly bills for the times you need no heat at all, that CCF amount would be hot water only, right. Maybe the neighbors would show you their summer bills also. For instance my summer usage for hot water is from 22 to 25 for the two of us. If we have company 4 to 5 days then maybe we hit 30. A third person living in the house could raise it to a constant 30.
Remember; showers, dishwasher runs, laundry times etc.

In any event, we would like to hear from you again with any conclusion you might come to, Thanks.

Gordy

Hatterasguy said:

What appears to be missing from this entire discussion regarding the difference between two houses is the hot water use.

Different usage of hot water between two identical buildings can have a massive difference in fuel consumption. Typically, hot water use is 30% of the gas bill for the entire year. Add a couple of more people who like long showers and the difference between two homes can easily be 20% just based upon hot water usage.

Also how they cook, barbecue, and dry clothes.