Welcome! Here are the website rules, as well as some tips for using this forum.
Need to contact us? Visit https://heatinghelp.com/contact-us/.
Click here to Find a Contractor in your area.

Another steam replacment coming up

Dave0176
Dave0176 Member Posts: 1,176
Got another steam replacemnt job in Fort Lee NJ. Did EDR on the house came up with 410 EDR, so I'm going to install a Weil McLain EG45. The old boiler looks to be a Utica oil fired unit converted to gas somtime in the early 70s I'm guessing?? The main is bullheaded and I'll be replacing that.
DL Mechanical LLC Heating, Cooling and Plumbing 732-266-5386
NJ Master HVACR Lic# 4630
Specializing in Steam Heating, Serving the residents of New Jersey
https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/dl-mechanical-llc

https://m.facebook.com/DL-Mechanical-LLC-315309995326627/?ref=content_filter

I cannot force people to spend money, I can only suggest how to spend it wisely.......
ChrisJBrianT1077

Comments

  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 15,769
    That's an older Utica ACE or OU series boiler. These things are built like tanks.

    Is that Roberts-Gordon an atmospheric burner? If so, I'd bet it's not that efficient in that boiler.

    And is traffic still a problem there?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKHV0LLvhXM
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Towson, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
  • Dave0176
    Dave0176 Member Posts: 1,176
    Steamhead said:

    That's an older Utica ACE or OU series boiler. These things are built like tanks.

    Is that Roberts-Gordon an atmospheric burner? If so, I'd bet it's not that efficient in that boiler.

    And is traffic still a problem there?


    Yes its atmospheric and it's rated input is 275,000 BTU. The HO told me he spent a ton of money on gas.

    TRAFFIC?? Traffic is always an issue in Fort Lee even without Christie lol.

    DL Mechanical LLC Heating, Cooling and Plumbing 732-266-5386
    NJ Master HVACR Lic# 4630
    Specializing in Steam Heating, Serving the residents of New Jersey
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/dl-mechanical-llc

    https://m.facebook.com/DL-Mechanical-LLC-315309995326627/?ref=content_filter

    I cannot force people to spend money, I can only suggest how to spend it wisely.......
  • John Mills_5
    John Mills_5 Member Posts: 935
    I can't believe how people keep their nasty old boilers so long!
  • vaporvac
    vaporvac Member Posts: 1,520
    I hope they keep that cute plaque as a memnto and hang it on the boiler room wall. I'd love a room with all these old nameplates.
    Two-pipe Trane vaporvacuum system; 1466 edr
    Twinned, staged Slantfin TR50s piped into 4" header with Riello G400 burners; 240K lead, 200K lag Btus. Controlled by Taco Relay and Honeywell RTH6580WF
  • Dave0176
    Dave0176 Member Posts: 1,176
    Header is built, two 2-1/2" risers into a 3" drop header and two 2" system risers.
    DL Mechanical LLC Heating, Cooling and Plumbing 732-266-5386
    NJ Master HVACR Lic# 4630
    Specializing in Steam Heating, Serving the residents of New Jersey
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/dl-mechanical-llc

    https://m.facebook.com/DL-Mechanical-LLC-315309995326627/?ref=content_filter

    I cannot force people to spend money, I can only suggest how to spend it wisely.......
    SWEI
  • Dave0176
    Dave0176 Member Posts: 1,176
    Job all complete.. The last pic is my brother my pop and me.
    DL Mechanical LLC Heating, Cooling and Plumbing 732-266-5386
    NJ Master HVACR Lic# 4630
    Specializing in Steam Heating, Serving the residents of New Jersey
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/dl-mechanical-llc

    https://m.facebook.com/DL-Mechanical-LLC-315309995326627/?ref=content_filter

    I cannot force people to spend money, I can only suggest how to spend it wisely.......
    SWEIBrianT1077jonny88
  • BobC
    BobC Member Posts: 5,381
    That should provide good dry steam for a long time.

    Bob
    Smith G8-3 with EZ Gas @ 90,000 BTU, Single pipe steam
    Vaporstat with a 12oz cut-out and 4oz cut-in
    3PSI gauge
    Dave0176
  • KC_Jones
    KC_Jones Member Posts: 5,359
    You should call up Weil McLain and market them piping kits. Gorgeous work as usual.
    2014 Weil Mclain EG-40
    EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Boiler Control
    Boiler pictures updated 2/21/15
    Dave0176
  • Dave0176
    Dave0176 Member Posts: 1,176
    KC_Jones said:

    You should call up Weil McLain and market them piping kits. Gorgeous work as usual.

    I wish they would just of acknowledge this type of piping as a alternative piping method.
    DL Mechanical LLC Heating, Cooling and Plumbing 732-266-5386
    NJ Master HVACR Lic# 4630
    Specializing in Steam Heating, Serving the residents of New Jersey
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/dl-mechanical-llc

    https://m.facebook.com/DL-Mechanical-LLC-315309995326627/?ref=content_filter

    I cannot force people to spend money, I can only suggest how to spend it wisely.......
    KC_JonesSWEI
  • hvacfreak2
    hvacfreak2 Member Posts: 500
    Really nice work.
    hvacfreak

    Mechanical Enthusiast

    Burnham MST 396 , 60 oz gauge , Tigerloop , Firomatic Check Valve , Mcdonnell Miller 67 lwco , Danfoss RA2k TRV's

    Easyio FG20 Controller

  • Dave0176
    Dave0176 Member Posts: 1,176
    @Steamhead the old Utica weighed a ton, omg it took seven big guys to get that thing up the stairs..................
    DL Mechanical LLC Heating, Cooling and Plumbing 732-266-5386
    NJ Master HVACR Lic# 4630
    Specializing in Steam Heating, Serving the residents of New Jersey
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/dl-mechanical-llc

    https://m.facebook.com/DL-Mechanical-LLC-315309995326627/?ref=content_filter

    I cannot force people to spend money, I can only suggest how to spend it wisely.......
  • KC_Jones
    KC_Jones Member Posts: 5,359
    Dave0176 said:

    Job all complete.. The last pic is my brother my pop and me.

    Working with your dad is the best (I don't have a brother). My grandfather always had a wood boat when I was growing up. My father, grandfather and I all kept it up together. Everyone else wanted to go fishing, but we 3 kept it floating and were always together working on it or enjoying it. So many fond memories. My father and I still help each other with remodeling and he is still going strong at 70. I hope to make memories like that with my own children. Didn't mean to get off topic, that picture just made me a little nostalgic.
    2014 Weil Mclain EG-40
    EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Boiler Control
    Boiler pictures updated 2/21/15
  • I have always thought that the drop-header would be easier to connect to the existing mains, just because of the increased distance between header, and mains. So even though there is more pipe needed, there would be an easier "fit", resulting in a lot less time taken to fit everything together.--NBC
    Dave0176
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 13,913
    Dave0176 said:

    KC_Jones said:

    You should call up Weil McLain and market them piping kits. Gorgeous work as usual.

    I wish they would just of acknowledge this type of piping as a alternative piping method.
    I wish they didn't compliment a vertical header on Twitter but sometimes we don't get what we wish for.

    :(
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • Dave0176
    Dave0176 Member Posts: 1,176
    Well my dad is hooked at 63 years old, he has asked me for all my Holohan books on steam.
    DL Mechanical LLC Heating, Cooling and Plumbing 732-266-5386
    NJ Master HVACR Lic# 4630
    Specializing in Steam Heating, Serving the residents of New Jersey
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/dl-mechanical-llc

    https://m.facebook.com/DL-Mechanical-LLC-315309995326627/?ref=content_filter

    I cannot force people to spend money, I can only suggest how to spend it wisely.......
    SWEI
  • hvacfreak2
    hvacfreak2 Member Posts: 500
    Dave0176 said:

    Well my dad is hooked at 63 years old, he has asked me for all my Holohan books on steam.

    Thats funny , my mom borrowed my Lost Art book not long after I moved out on my own many years ago. I had just got the book at a Dead Mens Steam Class a few weeks prior and she was in the middle when I packed it up.
    hvacfreak

    Mechanical Enthusiast

    Burnham MST 396 , 60 oz gauge , Tigerloop , Firomatic Check Valve , Mcdonnell Miller 67 lwco , Danfoss RA2k TRV's

    Easyio FG20 Controller

  • hboogz
    hboogz Member Posts: 113
    edited December 2015
    Dave - Beautiful work as always. I have a few questions regarding the setup maybe you can help me better understand and prepare me for when I take the dive and try this myself eventually.

    A) Where does this copper pipe tie into? I see you're coming into the dry return drip connection for the makeup water, just curious where that pipe connects into since I can't see it too well in the pictures.

    B.) On drop headers you always use close nipples to connect the 2 90 ells coming from the riser and starting the header before it dops down?

    C) Is this a standard distance for an equalizer before you're "allowed" to make turns? Or is it just down as much as possible (which looks logical)

    D) I noticed there are two dry returns but one was chosen to get tee'd off and house the 3 Gortons. On these type of installs venting one dry return is the approach?

    Thanks again for showing your work!

    Harry.


  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 13,913
    I'm curious if that horizontal run of the equalizer that low down could cause hammering. Seems like the water could easily back up into it partially, no?

    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • Dave0176
    Dave0176 Member Posts: 1,176
    ChrisJ said:

    I'm curious if that horizontal run of the equalizer that low down could cause hammering. Seems like the water could easily back up into it partially, no?

    Never has Chris and I've run a lot like this, and I put these boilers through their paces upon commissioning.

    At first that was my fear, but I've never ever heard a customer complain, or seen anything myself.

    The reason for doing this is because it's not easy trying to get the run right in a double 45.

    It's not pitched backward so if any water does sit it's minimal.
    DL Mechanical LLC Heating, Cooling and Plumbing 732-266-5386
    NJ Master HVACR Lic# 4630
    Specializing in Steam Heating, Serving the residents of New Jersey
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/dl-mechanical-llc

    https://m.facebook.com/DL-Mechanical-LLC-315309995326627/?ref=content_filter

    I cannot force people to spend money, I can only suggest how to spend it wisely.......
    ChrisJ
  • Dave0176
    Dave0176 Member Posts: 1,176
    edited December 2015
    hboogz said:

    Dave - Beautiful work as always. I have a few questions regarding the setup maybe you can help me better understand and prepare me for when I take the dive and try this myself eventually.

    A) Where does this copper pipe tie into? I see you're coming into the dry return drip connection for the makeup water, just curious where that pipe connects into since I can't see it too well in the pictures.

    B.) On drop headers you always use close nipples to connect the 2 90 ells coming from the riser and starting the header before it dops down?

    C) Is this a standard distance for an equalizer before you're "allowed" to make turns? Or is it just down as much as possible (which looks logical)

    D) I noticed there are two dry returns but one was chosen to get tee'd off and house the 3 Gortons. On these type of installs venting one dry return is the approach?

    Thanks again for showing your work!

    Harry.


    Hi Harry ok starting with "A"
    That don't tie into anything, it's the blowoff tube it just runs from the backflow preventer to about 4" off the floor.

    "B"
    I like to use 4" nipples not close nipples although you could use close nipples, I use 4" out of personal preference.

    "C"
    You could run a 3X2 elbow pointed straight down, once again the way I do it is preference. I've done this a few different ways, sometime right off the elbow with a reducer or reducer elbow, I've used a double 45 to slope it downward toward the Hartford loop. What ever you do you don't want water pooling up in there, that's all. And I always run it in 2" pipe

    "D"
    The reason that dry return got the larger number Gortons is because that return was from the longer steam main. This is an attempt to balance the two steam mains.
    DL Mechanical LLC Heating, Cooling and Plumbing 732-266-5386
    NJ Master HVACR Lic# 4630
    Specializing in Steam Heating, Serving the residents of New Jersey
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/dl-mechanical-llc

    https://m.facebook.com/DL-Mechanical-LLC-315309995326627/?ref=content_filter

    I cannot force people to spend money, I can only suggest how to spend it wisely.......
  • hboogz
    hboogz Member Posts: 113
    Thanks a lot for taking the time to respond. I really appreciate it.

    Any reason you didn't auto-water feeders? Are thos frowned upon?

    Is also the height of the drop something you choose? In other words the risers out of the boiler comes up at least 24" off the jacket, then 2 90's into the drop - how far do you drop usually? Is this the 4" nipple you referred to earlier?

    Thanks!

    Harry
  • Dave0176
    Dave0176 Member Posts: 1,176
    hboogz said:

    Thanks a lot for taking the time to respond. I really appreciate it.



    Any reason you didn't auto-water feeders? Are thos frowned upon?



    Is also the height of the drop something you choose? In other words the risers out of the boiler comes up at least 24" off the jacket, then 2 90's into the drop - how far do you drop usually? Is this the 4" nipple you referred to earlier?



    Thanks!



    Harry

    I personally don't like auto water feeders, they give a false sense that the boiler is automatic and don't need to be looked at. If someone insists I'll install it.

    I drop the header with a 4" nipple, my choice I like it.

    I always thread at least two 12" nipples per riser, connected by the union on all risers. That puts me about 22" above the top of the jacket, and about 29-30" above the water line, I'll do more if I have the head space.
    DL Mechanical LLC Heating, Cooling and Plumbing 732-266-5386
    NJ Master HVACR Lic# 4630
    Specializing in Steam Heating, Serving the residents of New Jersey
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/dl-mechanical-llc

    https://m.facebook.com/DL-Mechanical-LLC-315309995326627/?ref=content_filter

    I cannot force people to spend money, I can only suggest how to spend it wisely.......
    SWEI
  • Charlie from wmass
    Charlie from wmass Member Posts: 4,244
    Looks great. I like the VXT feeders though. It gives a meter to let you know how much water is being used. IMHO they are not going to give the boiler any attention anyways since it will be running so peacefully.
    Cost is what you spend , value is what you get.

    cell # 413-841-6726
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/charles-garrity-plumbing-and-heating