Another steam replacment coming up

Dave0176

Got another steam replacemnt job in Fort Lee NJ. Did EDR on the house came up with 410 EDR, so I'm going to install a Weil McLain EG45. The old boiler looks to be a Utica oil fired unit converted to gas somtime in the early 70s I'm guessing?? The main is bullheaded and I'll be replacing that.

Steamhead

That's an older Utica ACE or OU series boiler. These things are built like tanks.

Is that Roberts-Gordon an atmospheric burner? If so, I'd bet it's not that efficient in that boiler.

And is traffic still a problem there?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKHV0LLvhXM

Dave0176

Steamhead said:

That's an older Utica ACE or OU series boiler. These things are built like tanks.

Is that Roberts-Gordon an atmospheric burner? If so, I'd bet it's not that efficient in that boiler.

And is traffic still a problem there?


Yes its atmospheric and it's rated input is 275,000 BTU. The HO told me he spent a ton of money on gas.

TRAFFIC?? Traffic is always an issue in Fort Lee even without Christie lol.

John Mills_5

I can't believe how people keep their nasty old boilers so long!

vaporvac

I hope they keep that cute plaque as a memnto and hang it on the boiler room wall. I'd love a room with all these old nameplates.

Dave0176

Header is built, two 2-1/2" risers into a 3" drop header and two 2" system risers.

Dave0176

Job all complete.. The last pic is my brother my pop and me.

BobC

That should provide good dry steam for a long time.

Bob

KC_Jones

You should call up Weil McLain and market them piping kits. Gorgeous work as usual.

Dave0176

KC_Jones said:

You should call up Weil McLain and market them piping kits. Gorgeous work as usual.

I wish they would just of acknowledge this type of piping as a alternative piping method.

hvacfreak2

Really nice work.

Dave0176

@Steamhead the old Utica weighed a ton, omg it took seven big guys to get that thing up the stairs..................

KC_Jones

Dave0176 said:

Job all complete.. The last pic is my brother my pop and me.

Working with your dad is the best (I don't have a brother). My grandfather always had a wood boat when I was growing up. My father, grandfather and I all kept it up together. Everyone else wanted to go fishing, but we 3 kept it floating and were always together working on it or enjoying it. So many fond memories. My father and I still help each other with remodeling and he is still going strong at 70. I hope to make memories like that with my own children. Didn't mean to get off topic, that picture just made me a little nostalgic.

nicholas bonham-carter

I have always thought that the drop-header would be easier to connect to the existing mains, just because of the increased distance between header, and mains. So even though there is more pipe needed, there would be an easier "fit", resulting in a lot less time taken to fit everything together.--NBC

ChrisJ

Dave0176 said:

KC_Jones said:

You should call up Weil McLain and market them piping kits. Gorgeous work as usual.

I wish they would just of acknowledge this type of piping as a alternative piping method.

I wish they didn't compliment a vertical header on Twitter but sometimes we don't get what we wish for.

Dave0176

Well my dad is hooked at 63 years old, he has asked me for all my Holohan books on steam.

hvacfreak2

Dave0176 said:

Well my dad is hooked at 63 years old, he has asked me for all my Holohan books on steam.

Thats funny , my mom borrowed my Lost Art book not long after I moved out on my own many years ago. I had just got the book at a Dead Mens Steam Class a few weeks prior and she was in the middle when I packed it up.

hboogz

Dave - Beautiful work as always. I have a few questions regarding the setup maybe you can help me better understand and prepare me for when I take the dive and try this myself eventually.

A) Where does this copper pipe tie into? I see you're coming into the dry return drip connection for the makeup water, just curious where that pipe connects into since I can't see it too well in the pictures.

B.) On drop headers you always use close nipples to connect the 2 90 ells coming from the riser and starting the header before it dops down?

C) Is this a standard distance for an equalizer before you're "allowed" to make turns? Or is it just down as much as possible (which looks logical)

D) I noticed there are two dry returns but one was chosen to get tee'd off and house the 3 Gortons. On these type of installs venting one dry return is the approach?

Thanks again for showing your work!

Harry.

ChrisJ

I'm curious if that horizontal run of the equalizer that low down could cause hammering. Seems like the water could easily back up into it partially, no?

Dave0176

ChrisJ said:

I'm curious if that horizontal run of the equalizer that low down could cause hammering. Seems like the water could easily back up into it partially, no?

Never has Chris and I've run a lot like this, and I put these boilers through their paces upon commissioning.

At first that was my fear, but I've never ever heard a customer complain, or seen anything myself.

The reason for doing this is because it's not easy trying to get the run right in a double 45.

It's not pitched backward so if any water does sit it's minimal.

Dave0176

hboogz said:

Dave - Beautiful work as always. I have a few questions regarding the setup maybe you can help me better understand and prepare me for when I take the dive and try this myself eventually.

A) Where does this copper pipe tie into? I see you're coming into the dry return drip connection for the makeup water, just curious where that pipe connects into since I can't see it too well in the pictures.

B.) On drop headers you always use close nipples to connect the 2 90 ells coming from the riser and starting the header before it dops down?

C) Is this a standard distance for an equalizer before you're "allowed" to make turns? Or is it just down as much as possible (which looks logical)

D) I noticed there are two dry returns but one was chosen to get tee'd off and house the 3 Gortons. On these type of installs venting one dry return is the approach?

Thanks again for showing your work!

Harry.

Hi Harry ok starting with "A"
That don't tie into anything, it's the blowoff tube it just runs from the backflow preventer to about 4" off the floor.

"B"
I like to use 4" nipples not close nipples although you could use close nipples, I use 4" out of personal preference.

"C"
You could run a 3X2 elbow pointed straight down, once again the way I do it is preference. I've done this a few different ways, sometime right off the elbow with a reducer or reducer elbow, I've used a double 45 to slope it downward toward the Hartford loop. What ever you do you don't want water pooling up in there, that's all. And I always run it in 2" pipe

"D"
The reason that dry return got the larger number Gortons is because that return was from the longer steam main. This is an attempt to balance the two steam mains.

hboogz

Thanks a lot for taking the time to respond. I really appreciate it.

Any reason you didn't auto-water feeders? Are thos frowned upon?

Is also the height of the drop something you choose? In other words the risers out of the boiler comes up at least 24" off the jacket, then 2 90's into the drop - how far do you drop usually? Is this the 4" nipple you referred to earlier?

Thanks!

Harry

Dave0176

hboogz said:

Thanks a lot for taking the time to respond. I really appreciate it.



Any reason you didn't auto-water feeders? Are thos frowned upon?



Is also the height of the drop something you choose? In other words the risers out of the boiler comes up at least 24" off the jacket, then 2 90's into the drop - how far do you drop usually? Is this the 4" nipple you referred to earlier?



Thanks!



Harry

I personally don't like auto water feeders, they give a false sense that the boiler is automatic and don't need to be looked at. If someone insists I'll install it.

I drop the header with a 4" nipple, my choice I like it.

I always thread at least two 12" nipples per riser, connected by the union on all risers. That puts me about 22" above the top of the jacket, and about 29-30" above the water line, I'll do more if I have the head space.

Charlie from wmass

Looks great. I like the VXT feeders though. It gives a meter to let you know how much water is being used. IMHO they are not going to give the boiler any attention anyways since it will be running so peacefully.