New Steam Boiler - now system not quite right

chrisnbets

Sailah said:

Sure looks like a Mouat Outboard trap to me. It should have an element in there. My best guess is that it takes our 4017 element and cover. I can send you one but make sure you can get the cover off first. Shoot me your address and I'll send it out Monday.

Peter

Thanks Peter! Do you think bad traps would cause water sounds in a few radiators and pipes? Originally the installers had the pressure set too high on the boiler which I think caused us to replace a few radiator valves (They started hissing and water was leaking from them) and the main vent. I'll message you my address. Thanks again!

Fred

Is the water bouncing a lot in the boiler sight glass? New boilers take several skims to get the water clean enough to settle down. With oil on the surface, the water will push out of the boiler back into the returns or up into the risers/header. Make sure the pitch of all return pipes is in the right direction and that the radiators are pitched towards the outlet (trap) side. Was that trap always upright like that? Most I've seen are flat side (lug nut) up. Maybe someone more versed on two pipe systems will chime in.

Sailah

Outboard traps look just like that. It's an unusual configuration but works the same.

If the traps are gutted then I would think you could get water sounds. There is nothing holding the steam back and it could push the condensate through.

We can at least eliminate a bad trap in one radiator. If that stops the problem then you probably have the same issue in the others.

Be careful removing covers and oppose the force you put on the wrench by holding the trap body with another wrench on the hex. You can also lightly tap the body with a ball peen hammer to help break the bond. I usually used a torch and heat up the female part of a trap to get some thermal expansion going. For stubborn trap covers sometimes you need to use all the tricks to get them open.

ttekushan_3

Mouat vapor systems should be run at about 4 ounces of steam pressure. 6 ounces is pushing it. Focussing on the traps right now is dancing around the real issue.

You need a vaporstat to control the pressure.

Does you system still have all the Mouat graduated radiator valves? If any valves were replaced, that's another trouble spot. Any radiator valve that's not original should first be closed and then opened approximately 1/2 to 3/4 turn. Then experimentally adjust it until that radiator heats at the same rate as the radiators with the Mouat valves.

chrisnbets

Fred said:

Is the water bouncing a lot in the boiler sight glass? New boilers take several skims to get the water clean enough to settle down. With oil on the surface, the water will push out of the boiler back into the returns or up into the risers/header. Make sure the pitch of all return pipes is in the right direction and that the radiators are pitched towards the outlet (trap) side. Was that trap always upright like that? Most I've seen are flat side (lug nut) up. Maybe someone more versed on two pipe systems will chime in.

The water isn't bouncing that much in the sight glass and the water doesn't seem to have the junk floating in top as was the case when they first installed. They are scheduled to come out again and skim.

The traps have always been on that position, and they system worked perfectly until we decided to get a new boiler. Ugh.

Fred

Even though the water in the sight glass looks pretty good, additional skims are probably warranted. Do you have a Vaporstat or a Pressuretrol on this new boiler? What was on the old boiler? Low Pressure is critical.

chrisnbets

ttekushan said:

Mouat vapor systems should be run at about 4 ounces of steam pressure. 6 ounces is pushing it. Focussing on the traps right now is dancing around the real issue.



You need a vaporstat to control the pressure.



Does you system still have all the Mouat graduated radiator valves? If any valves were replaced, that's another trouble spot. Any radiator valve that's not original should first be closed and then opened approximately 1/2 to 3/4 turn. Then experimentally adjust it until that radiator heats at the same rate as the radiators with the Mouat valves.

I'm going to ask to have a vaporstat installed. They put one in a while back but it was not functioning correctly so they put the original pressuretrol back on.

We did have 3 valves changed and we are having issues with some of those radiators. When they originally installed the system they has the pressuretrol cutin set at 3 psi and that's when the main vent started spewing water and we has some radiator valves start hissing and leaking. The main vent and the valves were replaced and the cutin was set at the lowest setting. I'll try your suggestion of closing then only opening the valves 1/2 to 3/4. Thanks to the suggestions!

JUGHNE

What kind of pressure control was on the old boiler?

chrisnbets

JUGHNE said:

What kind of pressure control was on the old boiler?

I don't remember seeing any pressure control, just the gauge, but I really didn't pay attention as it worked perfectly for the 5 years we had it and we were new to steam heat. I regret not taking pics of the old boiler and piping before the new one was installed... Lesson learned!

Charlie from wmass

I noticed in the trap photo the pipe was extended. Perhaps it is extended too far. They make a thread extender, this is male thread on one end female on the other. It is shorter than the close nipple and coupling they used.