what's a pipe fitter?

GW

I've been a plumber since the 80's, do lots of small residential systems. When does one need a pipe fitter license?

Thanks, Gary

GW

This is Massachusetts I asking about

Gordy

Complexity of the work. Fitters usually deal with differing types of fluids, chemicals, and gases. Larger scale piping with more complex designs.

Don't now about Mass requirements but you start going commercial large scale, and industrial would seem the logical transitioning stage.

Gordy

I would add usually there are fitter sub groups like a lot of trades.
Gas fitters
Steam fitters
Sprinkler fitters.

Not to say that those fitters are limited to their knowledge beyond those groups, but some tend to specialize their personal scope.

SWEI

A few years back I was new to NM and looking to hire a number of journeymen for a commercial job. Reading the statute, I saw classifications for (among other things) both plumbers and pipefitters, but no definitions. Called the Mechanical Bureau to ask which was which and neither the bureau chief nor the chief inspector could answer it. They referred me to the head of the Mechanical Contractors Association. The best answer he could give me was, "your contractor will know." When I pressed him, he could not cite a written reference.

GW

thanks, my basic question is more along the lines of 'how large of a boiler can a plumber and or an oil technician install'?

Thanks, Gary

Paul48

How big is the Bilco door?

Charlie from wmass

750mbtu

EBEBRATT-Ed

Actually it's required over 700,000 btu/hour.

Obviously you need an oil license for an oil burner or a plumbers or gasfitters license for the gas.

200,000 btu/hr and over you have to follow the MA boiler rules and controls must comply with Asme CSD1 (2) low water cut offs 1 with a manual reset etc. etc. etc. Boilers over 200,000 require a state inspection the first year and the insurance companies inspector can take over after that. The initial inspection fee varies with the type of boiler. usualy around $150-$200 Forms and regulations on line at MA. Dept. Public Safety---Bureau of pipefitters, refrigeration technicians and sprinkler fitters.

We must be in the most regulated State there is. To LEGALLY install a combination gas oil burner and boiler in MA. would require:

Electrician
Pipefitter
Plumber (for water mu)
Plumber or Gasfitter for gas
Oil burner tech
Sheet metal permit for the venting and combustion air duct.

I did a small boiler (400,000) at U Mass. Not only had to comply with the above but had the following on site at the same time for start-up.

(they insisted on it)
Berkshire gas rep
State Plumbing inspector (for State Property)
Boiler MFG. start-up rep
State boiler inspector
And the Electrical inspector stopped by later!!!

Charlie from wmass

And they still can't put them in right even with a wallet full of licenses.

lchmb

glad I live in the "live free or die" state..must take a month of Sunday's to get something done trying to schedule all that..

Paul48

According to Wikipedia

A pipefitter is a tradesperson who installs, assembles, fabricates, maintains and repairs mechanical piping systems. Pipefitters usually begin as helpers or apprentices. Journeyman pipefitters deal with industrial/commercial/marine piping and heating/cooling systems. Typical industrial process pipe is under high pressure, which requires metals such as carbon steel, stainless steel, and many different alloy metals fused together through precise cutting, threading, grooving (Victaulic), bending and welding. A plumber concentrates on lower pressure piping systems for sewage and potable water (tap water), in the industrial, commercial, institutional, or residential atmosphere. Utility piping typically consists of copper, PVC, CPVC, polyethylene, and galvanized pipe, which is typically glued, soldered, or threaded. Other types of piping systems include steam, ventilation, hydraulics, chemicals, fuel, and oil.[1]

In the United States, many states require pipefitters to be licensed. Requirements differ from state to state, but most include a four- to five-year apprenticeship. Union pipefitters are required to pass an apprenticeship test (often called a "turn-out exam") before becoming a licensed journeyman. Others can be certified by the N.C.C.E.R

wcs5050

N/a

jonny88

Once you get into the big stuff it does get complicated but looks like MA puts NY to shame with the bureautic requirements.Yikes

EBEBRATT-Ed

WCS 5050 said:
"MA board changed 400000 BTU to 1000000 BTU. Just went to MA lic cont Ed today. Nfpa 83 will now cover large capacity stuff. Pipe fitter lic covers process piping carrying oxygen, nitrogen, etc. could have grandfathered in. Oh well.
Ichmb... Heard NH is gonna drop the hammer on you guys soon. "

Flag


I think your confusing the MA gas & Plumbing Code with The MA boiler rules.

We have a screwed up state. The MA Board of Plumb. & Gas fiters has nothing to do with the MA Dept. of Public Safety. These are two separate state agencies that have nothing to do with one another.

If you did your code up date it was a gas/plumbing update. nothing to do with pipefitting which doesn't have code updates yet.

It is very confusing









Quote · Off Topic Insightful Disagree Agree Like

GW

Thanks for all the comments

Ed, at what btu is Public Safety involved?

EBEBRATT-Ed

There involved at 200,000 and up but from 200mbh-700mbh no pipefitter license is required. 200-700 is pretty much standard stuff. Controls to meet CSD1 which is usually just the standard controls +

a manual reset aquastat and a man reset low watercut off on water. ASME expansion tank (if your relief valve is over 30ps) we sometimes change the relief valve to avoid this if the boiler comes with a 40 or 50.

Steam is a man reset high limit and 2 low water cut offs 1 is a man reset.
That usually covers it.
Over 200mbh requires a state boiler inspection. Form is on line. about a $200 fee.

They have different inspectors set up by districts. There pretty good for the most part and will generally work with you.

You do things right so you will have no issues.

If you need contact info let me know I can point you in the right direction

GW

Thanks Ed

GW

Ed, that's input?

wcs5050

Didn't mean to put a hair across. Sorry meant Nfpa 85 covers over 12.5mbh. Nfpa 86 does process furnaces. Got away from the pipe fitter thing here. Btw what state are you in?

j a_2

A pipe fitter is an extreamly talented individual....if he's good... Every trade has the good, bad, and the ugly..We see lots of ugly here from posters and we see lots of good from the talented regulars who post here...

EBEBRATT-Ed

From MA 528 CMR 2.00

Pipefitting. The installation, repair, replacement, maintenance or alteration of any apparatus for piping appliances, devices or accessories for heating systems having a rating greater than seven hundred thousand British Thermal Units including apparatus and piping for the general use of conveyance of steam and associated pumping equipment, vacuum and pneumatic systems, oil and petroleum products, ice making machinery, air conditioning equipment, piping systems used for the conveyance and storage of Category M liquids, as defined in ANSI/ASME B 31.3 Process Piping and high pressure systems over 150 pound-force per square inch gauge or hazardous industrial type gasses used in processes, biopharma or semi-conductor manufacturing. Pipefitting shall not include sheet metal work, refrigeration systems, and boilers and plumbing as defined under 248 CMR: Board of State Examiners of Plumbers and Gas Fitters promulgated under M.G.L. c. 142, §§ 4 and 13.

Gary,
I would say it would be input.

I am in the Great State of MA.
Near Springfield

GW

I'm in Northampton, up the road,

SWEI

Interesting data point. So we have Massachusetts and New Mexico. Anyone from the other 48 have a citable definition they might contribute?

Rich_49

John P from the Leaking Utica UB90 thread may be able to clarify NJ regs . He is a pipefitter . Pretty nice looking work too .

Charlie from wmass

Since Gary was asking as it applies to his work area Ed has covered it. Thanks Ed. I'm am just enjoying having the Wall.

GW

yes thanks Charlie, I should have phrased the question a bit more specifically. I just wanted to know what a pipe fitter is needed at what certain BTU inputs.

Charlie from wmass

It is explained at mass.gov search pipe fitter btw

SWEI

I'm curious if that 700,000 BTU/hr figure applies to an appliance or to the total system size?

ChrisJ

Paul48 said:

How big is the Bilco door?

Real men bring the boiler down the steep winder stairs.

Charlie from wmass

No they don't

GW

SWEI said:

I'm curious if that 700,000 BTU/hr figure applies to an appliance or to the total system size?

must be the fueled appliance

steamfitter

For general purposes:
In the United Association of Plumbers, Pipefitters, Steamfitters, Sprinklerfitters and Service Technicians of the U.S. and Canada, the distinction varies from state to state and province to province. In fact, there are sometimes differences from local to local within a given state.
However, in New York City, as in most locals, the difference between plumbers and fitters are domestic vs. mechanical. On any given job/contract, you will find Mechanical drawings seperate from Plumbing drawings.
The plumbing will generally not deal with the HVAC. That would be the work of the fitter. However, there are always jurisdictional issues that go way back to historical agreements. For example plumbers in NYC bring natural gas lines into the building (because kitchen and laundry appliances are domestic items), but the the fitter will connect the gas to the boiler and run the vents. Fuel oil will be 100 percent fitter work and so on and so forth. It does get a bit confusing when you get to the old pneumatic temp. control systems and fire protection. But I hope you get the picture. As far as local codes and licenses go, that's out of my league. I just thought I would add some info with a touch of history, to the conversation.

EBEBRATT-Ed

I am trying to update all our code books, Plumbing, Mechanical, Electrical & Oil burner etc. Working on MA. stuff. We also work in CT. but I don't claim to be up to date on CT requirements (but I should be)

MA. is a real nightmare. This started out as simply updating our gas code books and has now morphed into something that is giving me a headache.