I have to share this pro press and steam.

njtommy

Hey guys ran through some old pics. I saw this back in 2011 figured I would share this with you.

njtommy

Pro press on steam.

KC_Jones

Did you re pipe it? I have seen this on youtube before....and here it is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjuuuwbP3Bw

nicholas bonham-carter

It would be interesting to know if the joints are still leak free.
I couldn't stop the video in time, but his vent location seems odd.--NBC

njtommy

That's a great video.

Nope I didn't repipe the boiler. It was a brand new install at the time. The customer said it works fine and that was the end of it.

vr608

I agree, it would be good to know how long those joints last. I have Megapress fittings on a new radiator runout that was installed earlier this year, and am kicking myself for not doing more research beforehand. Fortunately its not near boiler piping, but still. No problems thus far, I suppose only time will tell.

KC_Jones

njtommy said:

That's a great video.



Nope I didn't repipe the boiler. It was a brand new install at the time. The customer said it works fine and that was the end of it.

I guess ignorance is bliss. Not only the copper, but it's also piped wrong.

njtommy

i would really like to see what it looks like now.

Honestly I'm not much of a steam guy. We work on it in big buildings and when it gets feed from power plants, but when it gets to a building it goes through a steam bundle to heat water.

I really need to pick up a few steam books.

Charlie from wmass

Viega has steam approved orings for their copper propress fittings. I have an oil company here in Western Massachusetts that uses it on all their steam boilers. They also have Deadman bumper stickers on their trucks. Proof you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

STEAM DOCTOR

I called Viega a while back and they said that all of their copper fittings are now approved for steam. Not saying that I would ever pipe a boiler with copper or with PP fittings. Only practical application might be a repair in the middle of a copper run when running new black pipe is not a option (i.e. copper radiator riser to second floor radiator etc). Personally, I would be inclined to use PP fittings over soldered fittings. PP fittings tend to have a bit of give in them. Also, I would always put some male and female adapters to absorb some of the twisting.

KC_Jones

Charlie from wmass said:

Viega has steam approved orings for their copper propress fittings. I have an oil company here in Western Massachusetts that uses it on all their steam boilers. They also have Deadman bumper stickers on their trucks. Proof you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

Seriously? Are they trying to give the impression they know what's going on, just in case someone has been on this site? You know if they spent half as much time actually educating themselves instead of trying to shaft people they would probably make more money AND have happier customers.

Charlie from wmass

KC I believe they even claim to have taken Dan's class, at least one guy I spoke to when I saw the stickers. I have to admit January 6th will be my first class I have been to.

Charlie from wmass

Victaulic now has steam rated gaskets. Any thoughts on that?

SWEI

Might be interesting to experiment with thinwall stainless press on steam...

KC_Jones

I forgot I had this one.

njtommy

I don't think I would use Vic fittings on steam either.
Would like to see how they hold up long term.

jonny88

I would like to see a steam boiler installed by viega .Maybe they should present it and you could make a judgement.Are they a German company and if so how many households in Germany run on steam.If they approved it surely they have systems in operation using their pp

Shane_2

Hey, at least they used both risers out of the boiler

KC_Jones

jonny88 said:

I would like to see a steam boiler installed by viega .Maybe they should present it and you could make a judgement.Are they a German company and if so how many households in Germany run on steam.If they approved it surely they have systems in operation using their pp

I don't think there are any steam heating systems in Europe. I think they stopped using it after WWII since they were basically rebuilding everything. Passed regulations that wouldn't allow it's use. Not sure if that's just residential or everything?

wcs5050

get'r done. he could at least have gone a little higher with the header. just had a look a megapress fitting... thought it had 2 o-rings.. only has one..yikes. rubber does have a lifespan.

jonny88

Exactly KC.So who is approving it the American distributors or German manufacturer.If they say it is approved PP does have some play unlike solder .Dont know my thoughts are why try and invent the wheel.I don't think I would be comfortable using it

Charlie from wmass

Invent the wheel Jonny? No, reduce the requirements of a proper skill set. Also known as dumbing down the trade. Even I am using propress for water lines, and PEX.

jonny88

I am with you Charlie,but to stay competitive you have no choice but to use pex.PP i am saving up for still using the torch.It really would be a shame to see PP on steam boilers as you take a lot of pride once installed with blk pipe .But progress I guess,

ChrisJ

Dumbing down the trade just like PVC soil pipes and soldered copper did to the guys using galvanized threaded pipe and cast iron+lead eh?

jonny88

its a good point Chris

KC_Jones

There are many in all trades that hold onto the old ways good or bad. In this case I just can't agree with copper on steam, it just doesn't make logical sense given the medium being transferred. In my field (drafting/design) I know some guys that swear we need to go back on "the board"...that makes zero sense to me. It's a never ending cycle really. I am sure when I am older and ready to retire some new technology will be out and I won't like it, but it's the way of the world. We should strive for improvement always, but also not blindly accept everything new as "better" because sometimes that's just not true.

Charlie from wmass

I often remember I can not wipe a lead joint and never was taught how. My father was excellent at it and could do it on water lines as well as sewer lines. He offered to teach me many times but work got in the way and I have never needed to do it. Plastic for drainage was frowned on, as well as using copper soldered fittings instead of threaded brass. Galvanized was always a cheap job in my world. Who owns parmalee wrenches to properly work brass pipe? http://www.gibbtools.com/block.php?block_id=4398

Charlie from wmass

And while I understand Chris mentioning the PVC and soldered pipe, I actually see it did dumb down the trade. We do not see plumbing nightmares with lead and oakum joints as much as we see it with plastic drainage piping. Yes my generation of the trade is far less skilled than my Father's was. I am good at what I do, I am not that good at what he did.

KC_Jones

I will also add I'd be willing to bet most are not making up the joints correctly either. There are several subtle details to putting together a PVC joint and many miss them. I have had a plumber tell me flat out "We don't have time to do all that". So apparently even the PVC isn't enough time savings over the "old way". I agree Charlie I don't even do this for a living and I have seen some serious garbage with respect to PVC. In my town we have a fair amount of house flippers and rental property...I have yet to see one that wasn't a hacked together train wreck inside. I can't stand crap work no matter what it is. I have seen ditch diggers do sloppy work and even that aggravates me. I have to disagree with you about skill though...you have a different skill set not less skill. Don't sell yourself or our generation short.

BobC

Some things are hard to let go of. I build and repair older stereo amps, preamps and tuners for a hobby. Most of these are discreet circuitry where every part has a function and has to be carefully selected if you want good sound. The type of resistor or capacitor is determined by it's function in the circuit.

The new stuff is full of large scale integration (often surface mount) that is almost impossible to work on. It's bad enough that some of the best opamps are only available in surface mount packages, it's like trying to solder a baby spider. I can see it's a necessary evil in digital gear (Cd players or DACs) but on the analog side I prefer tubes, transistors, and FETs because I'm comfortable with them. Opamps are fine for some functions but discrete components give you more latitude.

A lot of those discrete parts are are starting to get scarce now, luckily I have a cellar with over 50 years of parts. Things will continue to evolve and I'll have to adapt to some of them but not without a fight.

Bob

ChrisJ

@BobC sounds like we are more alike than we think. Though most of my stuff has been tubes . I've always had a thing for 1960s Fisher and 1970s marantz and pioneer.

ChrisJ

Btw I can solder surface mount with near perfection. It's easy once you get used to it and with the right equipment.

BobC

@ChrisJ I just finished restoring a Kenwood 7500 tuner. All solid state but you can't buy anything that performs like it these days. I also have a 1970 AR tuner that I bought new, still works perfectly.

I just ordered some new tubes for my Conrad Johnson PV-10A preamp. That thing is so well buil that it will probably stay operational for at least 50 years with periodic tube replacement.

Bob

ChrisJ

I sold and gave away most of my stuff but I still have a 1941 zenith I restored

Charlie from wmass

I am not selling myself short, I am better at steam boilers, oil burners, controls, radiant heating, and combustion analysis than my Fathers is. I just am slow at lead and oakum joints and no clue on wiping lead joints. Plastic drainage is never installed properly from what I have seen. Chamfer, ream, square ends, inconceivable! No one has time to do it right, even when it is that easy and fast. Do not get me started on primer for it!

SWEI

Geek moment: I'm the youngest guy I know who started on tubes (and mainframes.) I grew up playing with hand me down tube gear that was either free or nearly so. Worked as an EE in Hollywood out of college, then in and around the High End for years. Still driving a fully loaded LP-12, a Mac 275, a Citation tuner and some top shelf acoustic recording gear.

KC_Jones

Charlie from wmass said:

Chamfer, ream, square ends, inconceivable! No one has time to do it right, even when it is that easy and fast. Do not get me started on primer for it!

To clarify my comment the plumber said NO PLUMBER does all that. I guess he was wrong....not that I agreed with him by any means. My apologies for the selling short comment, I obviously misinterpreted your comment. Oh and your last comment made me think of this meme.

Charlie from wmass

I was thinking of that scene when I typed it.

ChrisJ

@SWEI I'm 34

Charlie from wmass

and amazing at hijacking a thread, lol just a kid.

ChrisJ

Listen pops....