Triangle tube Prestige excellence VS indirect DHW

keyote

I assume the answer is demand but im not sure im interpreting their charts correctly is the comparison peak flow divided by 10 min is gpm making the excellence vs solo/smart 40 3gpm vs 5 gpm or is there more to it, the recovery and the continuous mean what exactly.
Also as far as the BTU is that given as a bench mark boiler for these performance numbers but that you could upsize the tank in relation to your boiler choice say the 110 boiler and the smart60 and get slightly different performance.
Ive seen a video where the outer tank which is not stainless rusted through, and the HO had to sue, is this a one off, what might have caused this, im thinking of running antifreeze for radiant would that hurt or help.
Im doing my own work and am worried about not having a warranty.
LOL can i add one more question. I hope to add a solar loop in the future is there really any need for that dual source tank they sell for three times the price couldnt the same thing be done with zone/controls.Solar would have to be antifreeze so all sorts of mixing could be set up



Model
No.
Boiler Output
Btu/hr
1st Hour
Recovery
(gal.) Continuous
flow (gal.)
Peak/Flow
Gal/10 min.

Smart 30 87,000 140 115 40
Smart 40 112,000 180 150 50
Smart 50 140,000 220 185 65
Smart 60 270,000 410 360 100
Smart 80 300,000 460 400 125
Smart 100 337,000 525 450 150
Smart 120 420,000 650 560 190

SWEI

Quite a few questions there. Triangle Tube publishes what they call Commercial Performance Data for the SMART series that gives you much more specific data, but only for the 60-120 sizes. The short version is that your first hour capacity is determined mostly by the size of the indirect and your recovery is determined entirely by the boiler size (unless you pair a very small indirect with a very large boiler.)

Rusting of the outer tank would be caused by corrosive water or excessive air in the boiler loop. It should never happen with a properly installed SMART tank.

Solar does not have to use glycol. A properly designed drainback system will work anywhere in the US using plain water. There are some configurations (collectors lower than the storage tank, low spots in lines, etc.) where glycol is the only option. We save it for those.

The SME tanks are a nice design, but they are not inexpensive as you pointed out. There are other options from many vendors, and you can always use an external HX for the solar.

keyote

Thanks SWEI can you explain what seems a discrepancy for the smart40 data between the 180 GPH recovery = 3 gpm, 150 gal continuous = 2.5 gpm? and the 50 gal per 10 min peak flow = 5gpm. Im trying to figure out how many simultaneous showers i suppose and if say the smart 40/solo 110 wont cover it will the smart 60 /solo 110 [for instance] I realize theres a lot of variables but am looking for generalizations at this point.

Rich_49

Don't forget that you may store at a higher temp and mix down . This will allow better performance throughout all conditions and protect you from legionella .

SWEI

BTU ratings for indirects are the maximum amount that the HX will transfer. If you have a smaller boiler, it will transfer less than that. The Universal Hydronics Formula is your friend here:

BTU/hr output of the boiler divided by 500 divided by the temperature rise will tell you how many GPM of continuous hot water you can generate. Do not oversize the heating boiler to create more DHW. Either upsize the indirect or install a dedicated water heater.

Rich_49

Also take into account that most peoples butts can only tolerate 106* water before getting uncomfortable as an average . Your butt may vary .

keyote

thanks guys but im still not clear so obviously im not asking clearly.
can you explain what seems to me a discrepancy [but im sure is my not understanding the terminology] in the table above for the following smart 40 data; the 180 GPH recovery [180 gph /60 minutes = 3 gpm], 150 gal continuous = [150 gal/ 60 min 2.5 gpm?] and the 50 gal per 10 min peak flow [50 gal / 10 min = 5gpm]. Im trying to figure out how many simultaneous showers or gpm of hot water. so im assuming each of the performance specs cn be divided by time to get the gpm but they dont agree with each other.

SWEI

There are three numbers quoted on the spec sheet:

1st hour recovery (in gallons)
Continuous flow (in gallons) -- makes no sense, since it's mixing flow with quantity)
Peak flow (GPM x 10)

Note that the specified conditions are not going to match your situation. 200°F supply is not a good idea from a mod/con (TT sets their DHW priority temp at 186 IIRC) and a 90°F temperature rise is actually a bit high for most parts of the country.

Do the math yourself and see what you get. Most water heaters are quoted at a 77°F temp rise, but read the fine print whenever you are making comparisons.

How many GPM do you need continuously? Do you have a large soaker tub or multi-head shower? How many people in the house and do they all shower at the same time every day? If not, how close?

Zman

This is all good stuff. I generally ignore the charts and do the math. Once you have determined that the heat exchanger is large enough to for the boiler you are using the rest is irrelevant.
What is your water heater with now? Is it keeping up?

keyote

converting a 100 year old 4 story to three family have installed tankless each in the two apts and one of my back bed baths. the size of the house 5000sf seemed to warrant tankless in bath ceilings and may put tenants on own meters. so this question was ostensibly about a master bath a guest bath and two powder rooms 90% of the time its only serving a master bath id think. but what if.. the guest room is used permanently a lot of entertaining is done what if the tenants tankless units 150btu for one bed/ bath and laundry and kitchen just doesnt cut it could they be connected to the indirect piping is easy on one unit the other tougher and farther but anythings do able. so i was trying to get a feel for the realistic output and the range from various piping scenarios. I didnt catch the 200 degree BS seems to high for a reasonable table.

SWEI

150,000 BTU/hr will produce ~3.6 GPM at a 77°F rise from a condensing tankless heater.

How cold does your incoming water get during winter? How expensive is your gas? Electric rates?