leak from the radiator

Fred

You can do it! The toughest part was getting that spud out. It needs to happen.

cstocker77

Should I use a lubricant on the valve to get it off?

Also: I used a small vice clamp to hold the nut on the spud in place, while I was hacksawing it off. Just thought I should add that detail.

Fred

Given that the valve threads are on the underside and the pipe threads into it, I wouldn't use any lubricants. All they will do is run down the inside of the pipe and then you'll end up having to skim the boiler to get the oils out, in a few weeks.

JUGHNE

That valve doesn't appear to be that old. It seems like it should unscrew fairly easy. There is a video on Utube that shows several methods. One is to hacksaw a diagonal cut across the valve where it screws onto the pipe, (where you put your wrench). You saw thru the brass of the valve only almost to the iron pipe riser. Then with hammer and chisel you "pop" your cut open, it would unscrew easy then. Don't cut the iron pipe threads.

I have strained on some pipe joints and sheepishly looked over my shoulder to be sure no was watching after I realized I was pulling in the wrong direction.

Local1Plumber

In my experience changing out radiator valves here in NYC I generally cape out the spud and get at the valve with a grinder. If you're handy with a grinder the technique I have used with much success is first I cut off the female end of the union, then I lop off the top of the valve as close as I can comfortably get to the pipe coming up through the floor leaving a little "meat" for later. Then, attacking the valve from the side I plunge-grind as deep as I can get into the valve without touching the threads in two spots. I keep a really bright flashlight handy to inspect as I plunge cut to make sure I do not touch the threads of the nipple. Now you should have a two vertical plunge cuts into the side of what used to be a valve. Then, grasp the intact piece of brass between the plunge cuts with a pair of Channel Locks and "peel" it off. Once that is done the rest of whats left should unscrew pretty easily. It does take some experience with a grinder but it works like a charm. I have also tried replacing just the spud but generally speaking it does not mate with the existing valve so you wind up being locked into replacing both. Go easy on trying to unscrew the valve because if you're not careful you can "egg" the nipple. Meaning by putting a lot of pressure on the nipple you can make it go out-of-round.

cstocker77

Cut-Off Valve: Are there any particular brands I should use/avoid?

cstocker77

OK! Got the old cut off valve off. I used a wrench on the riser pipe, I scored the valve with a hacksaw, and I loosened it up with a hammer. then twisted off the rest of the way with another wrench. I had to use a hammer, it just wasn't coming.

I bought all of my new parts.

So I should use teflon tape AND pipe dope?

I am going to use one or both of those things on:
a. joining the riser pipe with the cut off valve.
b. joining the spud to the radiator.

If both, i put the tape on first, then the dope, i know it sounds like common sense, but I just want to make sure.

NOT using either of those things on the union nut. But I saw on youtube, to apply some dope to lip that makes the contact on the spud, to the valve. Wasn't sure if that was good advice.

cstocker77

Also, Do I keep twisting tight until i can't go anymore? I don't want the valve to be too tight, and not facing the right way!

Fred

Some people use both but for this type connection, I only use teflon tape with great success. No need for pipe dope too. Tighten enough put don't force beyond a good snug fit and things align. The pressure is (or should be) so low that leaking from either of those joints is not likely and if it does leak it will be simple to take the union apart and tighten it a little more but you don't want to put so much force on it that you crack the valve body. Use your spud wrench to install the spud into the radiator. With that tool you aren't likely to tighten it too much.

KC_Jones

Just out of curiosity what size wrench are you using on the valve and pipe? A rough rule of thumb is to use 12" of wrench for every 1" of pipe. 12" wrench for 1" pipe (the size you are working with), 24" wrench for 2" pipe etc. If you use too big of a wrench on installation this is the easiest way to over torque a fitting or valve. Also the correct size wrench fits the pipe properly. Too big of a pipe wrench on too small of a pipe can crush the pipe. When tearing things apart that you are throwing away not too big of a deal, but on installation this becomes a bit more important. I have a little 8" pipe wrench I use for really small stuff and I have never had a leak. It doesn't take as much torque to prevent leaks as people think, especially on low pressure steam.

cstocker77

OK, cool. I have a 10", and a 14" wrench. Took what I could carry from my grandpa's bench after he died.

That is reassuring that it doesn't take too much torque to make a good seal. I've got thew whole thing put together, new valve installed, everything hooked up to the radiator. I have the heat on and things are getting going.

The newly installed rad feels like it is only getting half hot. Maybe a new vent?

KC_Jones

It only needs to get as much steam as it takes to make the house/room warm. Most of my rads don't heat fully unless it's 0 or below outside. When it's warmer might only heat a couple sections. As long as the room is reaching the correct temperature it's not a worry.

cstocker77

Then…. HELL YES!!!!!!!!!! Success.

Fred

cstocker77 said:

Then…. HELL YES!!!!!!!!!! Success.

CONGRATULATIONS!!!

cstocker77

I will be back on here to ask some more about maintenance and how to get the system running more efficiently, but I am gonna bask in the glory for a couple of days.

Thanks for everyone's help. I absolutely could not have done this correctly without everyone's input. Y'all stuck with me. The guy at the supply store was surprised people were offering help on this forum without getting paid for it!

If anyone needs something music related, that is where I excel. Don't be a stranger.

Chad

KC_Jones

The guy at the supply house is probably used to people paying for bad or wrong information....or worse bad work.

NYCDave

I am changing a leaky radiator valve for the first time and this discussion has proven immensely useful! I managed to get the old valve off the riser pipe by using the hacksaw trick but I did have to whale on it pretty good with a hammer and chisel to get it to split even after I cut through… I am wondering if that is a potential problem for the riser and any connections below?

Another question I had is regarding what you guys mean when you say you can raise the pipe up?  I don’t really see how you can pull it up since it is attached to a mainline in the basement… Do you mean adding an extension? I hoping the new valve will sit in the same position as the old one, but I didn’t really check to see if the union was level before I started and I’m worried maybe it was leaking because the pipe/valve wasn’t so well aligned with the radiator…

Finally, having read Fred‘s comment, I am inclined to try Teflon tape only for the valve to pipe and spud to radiator connections even though I did buy some Gasoila... does the type of Teflon tape matter? I have the thin white stuff that I used for my pigtail and other fittings on the boiler and on the radiator vents...

ethicalpaul

You can often pull them up because the pipes are often offset like this where the horizontal part is in the floor joists

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/------/
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I have one where it comes off the 2" main at an elbow and goes up 2 feet to my first floor radiator. That thing doesn't move a bit. I have to repipe it.

I don't like the thin white tape, I use blue monster, or sometimes that gray tape that HD has.

NYCDave

Thanks @ethicalpaul!!!  I think my riser does the same thing, because when the valve was leaking it would drip straight down the riser onto the main where the riser was connected...  I guess I will hope that I can raise or lower the radio enough to work with the current pipe height… Which brings me to another question! Does it matter how many turns the valve goes around when I screw it onto the pipe? Obviously more turns will lower it and less turns would raise it so that gives me some play? Or do I have to screw it on as tight as I can (within reason)

NYCDave

Interestingly @JUGHNE and @Steamhead, The valve I took off looks very similar to the valve discussed in this post, and sure enough it has a crack at the bottom of the threads that connect to the union nut, which must be where my leak was coming from…. Somewhat reassuring, since I couldn’t really see where the leak was coming from before I removed it, so I was still wondering whether if I had repacked the valve better (I tried once and it didn’t help any) maybe I could’ve stopped it...

ethicalpaul

My experience is nothing like what the pros have, but I have replaced about 4 of these valves and haven't had a leak yet, so it's worth something at least

I use a good amount of tape (probably 5-6 turns of blue monster). I twist the valve by hand at first, then "casually" with a wrench. Then when it starts to show some resistance, I have to make a decision. It goes like this:

- Am I 1/2 turn away from where I want to be? Then do 1-1/2 turns
- Same for 1/4 turn away, do 1-1/4 turn
- Am I 1 turn away? Then do 1 turn
- How about 3/4 turn away? Do 3/4 turn

If you make your judgment call, and you feel like you messed up, don't worry about backing it off and retaping to try again. You generally only want to go one way with the valve...if you have to go backwards much, you may mess up the tape seal.

I personally don't like to put everything I have into tightening it. The steam is only going to be at 1.5 psi max anyway if you have your system set up correctly, there is room for error here.

NYCDave

So the new valves on, picture attached.  Turned on the boiler and watched it go through several pressure cycles and so far the radiator heats up nicely and no leaking! Hope it stays that way!  I wasn’t sure how to make sure the union joint was lined up or how much to tighten it, but I just went by feel. Our pressure troll is set to below one psi so there really shouldn’t be too much pressure on those connections. Thanks so much to everybody here for their help, I definitely would not be able to do any of this without you guys!

next question is whether anybody recommends any annual maintenance for the boiler itself?  The last two winters I haven’t done anything at all and it seemed to run fine. It was installed three years ago and after the install I had to do a fair amount of skimming and had to replace the pigtail once that first winter but since then nothing...?

neilc

check the pigtail(s) again for clear and clean,
Ptrol and gages match ?
and check / test the low water cutoff(s),
how's the main venting?

neilc

oh,
and check the stops to the sight glass for free, clear, and open.