Two pipe Richardson badly in need of a tune-up

Mr_Tea · September 2015

Hello everyone,
i have an older house in Queens, NYC. I'm not a boiler expert or plumber but i'm very capable of handling the associated problems. I have done my homework and read up on this site and inspectipedia. It's starting to get cold so i have to get cracking.

The house was supposedly built in 1926 but most homes in the area are recorded as 1926. I have a feeling that was once they started record keeping. Probably older. Parents bought the place in 1976, boiler was there since they bought it, a gas fired Weil Mclain E-7 210,000 BTU input, 168,000 BTU output. There are eight radiators in the house, two baseboards on the first floor, five monster cast iron rads on the second floor in each of five rooms and one cast monster in the attic. One thermostat in the living room, an electronic programmable Honeywell I installed two years ago. The electric system is dead simple, 24VAC transformer feeding a big series loop.

My problems are numerous:
I'm spending close to $350/month in gas during the colder winter months, an amount that is insane.
In 1987 the home was partly renovated. A plumber eliminated one radiator in the kitchen and replaced two radiators with cast iron baseboard on the first floor. I'm positive that is where most of my problems stem from.
Other problems include leaky valves on radiators and the boiler, uninsulated copper pipes replacing iron pipes, odd pressure issues, wet steam (more on that) and drafty windows that might be compounding the issues. I'm pretty sure the boiler short cycles too.

Let me start with the baseboard issue first and as i'm sure this the root cause of most of my issues. I'm assuming the plumber who did the renovation in 87 didn't know steam from a hole in the wall. He didn't think the baseboards he installed needed traps. The original radiator piping was removed all the way to the main and dry return and replaced with 3/4 copper. No valves,or traps. I'm not sure but i'm also sure bottom feed might be an issue here as well. Just have a look at the following pic. I know its only one side of one baseboard, but believe me when I say multiply it by four and mirror two of em, that's my baseboard piping for both baseboards.

Here is the basement piping, again, multiply by four (boiler transformer partly visible to the left, doorbell to the right):

The connection of one radiator to the main and dry return (The duct tape covers the original asbestos insulation) The foreground is the steam main, this is the first radiator on the main as it wraps around the basement in a square shape. The back pipe is the start of the dry return:

Now, I know this is a Richardson system because there are no traps and when I replaced a valve a number of years ago I saw a ball in the return elbow. Not knowing what the heck it was I recently did some research and found out what kind of system it is. Here is a picture of a radiator in the attic which had a frozen valve I replaced. Probably not the best repair method but it works. This same side supply and return setup is how every one of the original radiators are plumbed.

So, i'm sure that the absence of traps in my baseboards are wreaking havoc. When the boiler fires I can hear what sounds like water chugging in the riser from the boiler. This means wet steam.

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Mr_Tea · September 2015

Here are some boiler pictures:
Pressuretrol setting. It was originally higher, closer to 2/3 PSI when I moved in. I researched and turned it down last winter.

Compound gauge that probably needs replacing. This reading is what it reads after the relief valve is opened and the system is vented to atmosphere. It also reads 5-10 psi during operation so i'm sure the siphon tube is clogged. Since both the pressuretrol and gauge is on the tube, i'm probably getting bad pressure readings and the boiler short cycles. I used to see vacuum in the 2-3 range but leaks have since allowed the system to equalize with atmosphere.

This is the air valve, a dole 88.

Hartford loop side of the boiler also showing part of the wet return.

Control side of the boiler. Too many problems on this side to ignore. Aside from the aforementioned siphon tube, gauge and pressuretrol problems I also have:
Leaking McDonnell no. 67 blow down valve. that is what the plastic tube was for, direct water into the bucket. Still full of water from last winter.
Bad low water cutoff. Saw the boiler firing once with no water in the sight after I was away for the weekend.
Sight glass packing leaks and shutoff valves are shot, they wont close.
So i'm loosing a lot of water and filling the the boiler with fresh oxygen rich water every few days. There is also no automatic water feed. And for the record, I fill the sight glass to two inches above the center line of the hartford loop or about two inches from the top of the sight glass.

Wet return plumbing. Swing checks on each of the returns from the steam main and dry return. Who knows if they still work. Green valve in foreground is the feed water valve.

End of the dry return in the foreground, end of the steam main in the back. Dole 88 is seen here.

Top of the boiler piping. Pay no attention to the crap on top of the boiler, i'm just sorting through some junk and made it a temporary table. It's coming off this week.

Boiler nameplate.

So, I hope I gave enough information so far. Here are my questions:
1. What do I do about the baseboard plumbing. The obvious is to insulate the feed pipes. But, can I add traps and have them peacefully coexist with my Richardson radiators?
2. Do the baseboards need to be top fed and have shutoff valves installed?
3. I know the pressuretrol isn't the best for an old richardson system. Should I upgrade to a vaporstat?
4. Do I open the swing checks to inspect them?
5. The Mcdonnell is about ~$250 new. A new float switch assembly and blow down are almost the same. Though, removing the old 67 might be impossible without dissembling the gas main which has only one union just before the burners after the gas valve. The whole thing needs to come apart. I'm guessing, clean out the body and simply replace the blowdown valve and float switch.
6. Do I bother to replace the sight glass valves or just replace the packing and be done with it?
7. Should I bother to open the radiators and check to see if the Richardson trap air vents are clogged?
8. I have old vales on all but one of my original rads. I replaced one, but others are stuck, spin endlessly or are leaking badly. Can they be rebuilt and repacked? Or should I just replace them?
9. did I miss anything?

Thank you!

Mr_Tea · September 2015

Oops, here is a picture of one of the original radiator

valves:

Steamhead · September 2015

Is that cute little Dole vent the only vent in that system? If so, it's too small! Replace it with a Gorton #2 and watch how much better it runs.

Jamie Hall · September 2015

Mr_Tea said:

So, I hope I gave enough information so far. Here are my questions:
1. What do I do about the baseboard plumbing. The obvious is to insulate the feed pipes. But, can I add traps and have them peacefully coexist with my Richardson radiators?
2. Do the baseboards need to be top fed and have shutoff valves installed?
3. I know the pressuretrol isn't the best for an old richardson system. Should I upgrade to a vaporstat?
4. Do I open the swing checks to inspect them?
5. The Mcdonnell is about ~$250 new. A new float switch assembly and blow down are almost the same. Though, removing the old 67 might be impossible without dissembling the gas main which has only one union just before the burners after the gas valve. The whole thing needs to come apart. I'm guessing, clean out the body and simply replace the blowdown valve and float switch.
6. Do I bother to replace the sight glass valves or just replace the packing and be done with it?
7. Should I bother to open the radiators and check to see if the Richardson trap air vents are clogged?
8. I have old vales on all but one of my original rads. I replaced one, but others are stuck, spin endlessly or are leaking badly. Can they be rebuilt and repacked? Or should I just replace them?
9. did I miss anything?

Thank you!

My my. You do have some work to do! But it will be worth it.

First, second on Steamhead's comment -- try putting a Gorton #2 in place of the Dole. The system will be much happier.

The baseboards... don't respond quite the same way that radiators do, but that can't be helped. However, they must have traps or orifices to prevent steam from getting through to the dry returns. They don't have to have valves, but you may want them. They don't need a top feed -- that's fine. The copper isn't such a bright idea, but can be left -- but do insulate all the feed lines.

The Richardson traps --like any trap -- are easy to basic trouble shooting on: if the radiator heats reasonably quickly and more or less in unison with other radiators, the air vent must be open. If the returns are not steam hot (they may be very warm, but shouldn't be steam not) the trap is closing properly. Otherwise, you may have to take them apart and clean them and make sure they are otherwise operating properly.

The vapourstat is almost mandatory on a low pressure (vapour) system like this.

If it were mine I'd replace the LWCO rather than mess with trying to rebuild it.

You should be able to replace the packing in the sight glass valves; just make sure that the seats are in good shape while you are at it.

It may well be possible to take the valves apart and repack them and repair the seats if needed. This is much simpler than replacing them, if only because most valves have a union which mates with the radiator spud -- and replacing the valve may mean replacing that spud, which may or may not be quite so simple. You don't really need valves, though... so long as they are failed open and you don't want to shut off that particular radiator!

Why are there swing checks on the returns? If your pressure and water level are right, they shouldn't be needed; gravity is your friend. You may be able to lose them completely.

That's for starters...

Mr_Tea · September 2015

Steamhead said:
Is that cute little Dole vent the only vent in that system? If so, it's too small! Replace it with a Gorton #2 and watch how much better it runs.

Yes sir. Adorable isn't it? Gorton #2 it is.

Mr_Tea · September 2015

Thank you for the information so far. I knew I was in deep.

My my. You do have some work to do! But it will be worth it.

First, second on Steamhead's comment -- try putting a Gorton #2 in place of the Dole. The system will be much happier.

The baseboards... don't respond quite the same way that radiators do, but that can't be helped. However, they must have traps or orifices to prevent steam from getting through to the dry returns. They don't have to have valves, but you may want them. They don't need a top feed -- that's fine. The copper isn't such a bright idea, but can be left -- but do insulate all the feed lines.

Any recommendation on trap types? From my pictures, there isn't much room on the first floor plumbing to easily fit a trap. I was thinking I could more easily cut the copper pipe in the basement, close to the radiator and install an inline trap like a Hoffman 17C-3 or Watts 3GH. Of course I'd have to adjust the slope a bit to make sure the water properly drains.

The Richardson traps --like any trap -- are easy to basic trouble shooting on: if the radiator heats reasonably quickly and more or less in unison with other radiators, the air vent must be open. If the returns are not steam hot (they may be very warm, but shouldn't be steam not) the trap is closing properly. Otherwise, you may have to take them apart and clean them and make sure they are otherwise operating properly.

I assume I should start with the venting, boiler and baseboard troubles then move on to trouble shooting my rads.

The vapourstat is almost mandatory on a low pressure (vapour) system like this.

Sounds like a plan. I'm putting it on my shopping list.

If it were mine I'd replace the LWCO rather than mess with trying to rebuild it.

This is what scares me. It's such an old boiler, i'm afraid of cracking things. Worse, I can't swing the LWCO around without it hitting the gas pipe. The plumber who installed the gas pipe originally put only one union after the main gas valve just before the burners. I guess I can get a big pipe cutter, cut the gas line on one side of the shut off valve and install a union and replace the old plug style valve which is no longer up to code (had one on the dryer leak a few months back, scary stuff). I do have a plumber friend I can call for help, he just isn't a steam guy.

You should be able to replace the packing in the sight glass valves; just make sure that the seats are in good shape while you are at it.

It may well be possible to take the valves apart and repack them and repair the seats if needed. This is much simpler than replacing them, if only because most valves have a union which mates with the radiator spud -- and replacing the valve may mean replacing that spud, which may or may not be quite so simple. You don't really need valves, though... so long as they are failed open and you don't want to shut off that particular radiator!

I'll have a look and see how easy they are to pull apart. The valve in the last picture I pulled from the master bedroom radiator. It leaks pretty bad and is probably one reason my system isn't as efficient. The sight glass looks like an easy fix.

Why are there swing checks on the returns? If your pressure and water level are right, they shouldn't be needed; gravity is your friend. You may be able to lose them completely.

Good point. They are most likely original to that boiler install, before my parents owned the home. I'll pop them open and have a look to ensure they are working. Perhaps I can gut the swing gate and close them back up.

That's for starters...

Starters! Oh boy...

Mr_Tea · October 2015

Woa! That is some amazing info right there. That PDF is awesome, thank you so much. I'm still getting my parts in little by little. I'll try to disassemble the Richardson valve when I get a chance. The less I have to do with piping, the better.

Mr_Tea · October 2015

Just an update:
Thank you everyone who helped!

I ordered all my parts and replaced everything in only a few hours last Sunday. Replacing the LWC had me a bit worried but after I figured out an easy way to move the gas piping, everything went smooth as butter. The Gorton #2 blasts out the air vs the piddly Dole 88 and the steam traps on the baseboards worked out perfectly. The first time I fired it up I crossed my fingers. Within just a few minutes of building steam pressure, every radiator was hot. That has never happened before. The house is now evenly heated. Victory!

Though, I still have a few things to finish up but as of now it is functional and operating. My only task left besides the wiring and low pressure gauge is to insulate the copper steam lines to the baseboards. From there I can play with the vaporstat and maybe lower the pressure further from the 8oz I have it set to. And if anyone has any tips on pressure and differential settings, I'd greatly appreciate it.

Almost complete boiler controls. I am just waiting on a low pressure, 0-1 PSI/0-16oz/in² gauge which will attach to that yellow handle valve. I saw someone do something similar in this forum to protect the gauge during a high pressure blow down of the boiler. I will then clean up the wiring. I'm Keeping the old vac-pressure gauge because I kinda like it. It works for the most part and keeps it ASME compliant. The low pressure gauge will be the useful gauge anyhow.

One of two new steam traps I installed. I was worried I'd have to move pipes around and fit these on the first floor when I had a "no duh" moment and just put them in the return lines in the basement. Took only a few minutes each to install and still keeps the pitch moving downward.

Speaking of steam traps, what kind of wrench is used here? I thought a radiator valve spud wrench would be useful here but no dice. I tightened the spud union nut to the trap housing and used the hex on the trap body to tighten the spud end.

Rats. Cant remove the LWC without moving the gas line. Maybe I can leave it replace the broken bits on the old LWC with parts from the new one I bought (Yep. I almost chickened out on this one.)

Yea. This thing is shot. Better buckle down and just do it.

Easier than I thought. I had to separate the union after the gas valve, disconnect the pilot and thermocouple tubes, then pull it out at an angle and unscrew it from the tee. Plenty of room to spin the LWC now!

I started at 8 in the morning and even leaving to run errands for a few hours I still finished around 5:30pm and head out to a friends birthday party. Not too bad for an amateur.

This was the badly leaking Richardson B valve that I rebuilt at work after a good soaking in PB blaster. Even hit the upper parts with the polishing wheel. Looks pretty good now. Works great and turns easily.

Thanks again everyone!