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Bad Radiant

Paul Pollets
Paul Pollets Member Posts: 3,393
2 water heaters on an open system with 5 wall convectors. The 4 year old town ($1.2mil) home was never warm when temps dropped below 50 degrees, or the DHW was cool. Viessmann 222F cabinet model will replace the water heaters with wall panel radiators replacing the convectors. Builders should know better, but never will.
Bob Bona_4Steve Minnich

Comments

  • What temperatures were the radiators sized for? 130℉???

    When the temperature dropped below 50℉ and the heating couldn't keep up, was it because the radiators weren't sized properly or the water heater couldn't keep up?
    Often wrong, never in doubt.
  • SWEI
    SWEI Member Posts: 7,356
    Yikes. At least they used polypropylene venting (but no starter fittings.)

    The 222-F should buy them a bit of space as well. After photos...
  • Steve Minnich
    Steve Minnich Member Posts: 2,651
    Wow.
    Author - Hard Knocks: My Life Inside Boiler Rooms
    PHC News Columnist
    Minnich Hydronic Consulting & Design, LLC
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/minnich-hydronic-consulting-and-design
  • kcopp
    kcopp Member Posts: 3,715
    low bidder???
  • delta T
    delta T Member Posts: 844
    Well I hope they paid for what they got, and not a dime more....my guess is most likely not given the cost of the house though.
  • Paul Pollets
    Paul Pollets Member Posts: 3,393
    The new radiators are sized for 140 degree design. The existing convectors sucked more BTU's than the water heaters could produce.
  • Paul Pollets
    Paul Pollets Member Posts: 3,393
    It's not necessarily a "low bidder" job. The builders look for low cost heating systems using a loophole in the WA state code and don't realize the advantages of a well designed boiler system. Even in a very high end real estate market.
    SWEI
  • KC_Jones
    KC_Jones Member Posts: 4,653
    I don't know which pipe is supposed to go where, but I can't imagine someone buying this place looked at that and thought, "wow this guy does beautiful work". The lack of craftsmanship and pride in work alone would have stopped me from settling on that house. Why do homeowners keep accepting this crap? Things won't get better until people start talking with their wallets...or a better way is to STOP talking with their wallets. No money=people paying attention. I love all you professionals that do quality work, but these hacks have got to go.
    2014 Weil Mclain EG-40
    EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Boiler Control
    Boiler pictures updated 2/21/15
    kcopp
  • Paul Pollets
    Paul Pollets Member Posts: 3,393
    The customers look at the granite countertops and SubZero. Then buy the house. Rarely are the mechanicals inspected by a pro.
    Rich_49SWEIkcoppRobG
  • KC_Jones
    KC_Jones Member Posts: 4,653
    I often wonder how some people tie their own shoes in the morning....of course maybe most of them wear slip on shoes.
    2014 Weil Mclain EG-40
    EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Boiler Control
    Boiler pictures updated 2/21/15
  • kcopp
    kcopp Member Posts: 3,715
    I guess I don't get how a "builder" would accept that.... It a direct reflection on him.
  • Paul Pollets
    Paul Pollets Member Posts: 3,393
    What makes sense to us does not necessarily mean it makes sense to others. The reasons are largely economic. More stringent codes aren't easy to negotiate.
  • Mark Eatherton
    Mark Eatherton Member Posts: 5,837
    Common problem among MOST general contractors.

    1st question: How much per square foot? (Dead give away that they really don't know what they are doing, only trying to be competitive with the competition.)

    2nd question if first question meets their plan "When can you start?"

    3rd question: You want your money WHEN???

    The job of homeowner and contractor education is OUR job. The government isn't going to do it for us. Most inspectors have no clue what they are looking at. They look for the minimum required safeties (relief valves, backflow preventers, electric and gas disconnect) and the exit door.

    The UMC and USEHC requires the appliance have the capacity to handle BOTH loads simultaneously. As most here know, I really don't like these open Legionella generators. Hope to get them removed from the UMC in 2018.

    ME
    It's not so much a case of "You got what you paid for", as it is a matter of "You DIDN'T get what you DIDN'T pay for, and you're NOT going to get what you thought you were in the way of comfort". Borrowed from Heatboy.
    Zman4JohnpipeSWEIdelta T
  • RobG
    RobG Member Posts: 1,850
    Is the pipe He-Pex? it appears to be but they used to (maybe still do) make clear Aqua-Pex.
  • Paul Pollets
    Paul Pollets Member Posts: 3,393
    Aqua-Pex (non-barrier) We'll use a FPHX to separate the systems. No way to remove the existing pex without major demolition, patching and painting.
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