Steam Replacement and oil to gas conversion

Dave0176

Still in the process of replacing, almost done.
The old boiler was a Weil McLain Oil fired, owner said is was about 40 years old. He had water hammer galore, one runout went slightly down before going to the upfeed riser, so no way for water to properly return, so I made it drip into a new wet return. Two other runouts were the first runouts off the main, neither were dripped properly and came off the main sideways at a 90° angle and both runouts had no swing joints what so ever, and he had water hammer there too, so I ran a new main into a new dry return and completely repiped the runouts with new swing joints. This is were also a repiped radiator on the second floor bathroom from a renovation years ago, the upfeed riser fell out of the ceiling when we removed the runout, of course it was copper an since they no had clue how to pipe a runout had no swingjoints, so all the movement probably broke the copper joint loose, the pipe was all green so it must have been leaking for years.
The B&G cast 100 was given to me by the owner as he was told to buy a new pump by his oil company last year in case his failed, so he wanted me to use it, I informed him cast isnt the best idea for steam but, he bought it already so we used it.
The new boiler is a Weil McLain EG 35.

ChrisJ

Nice work, though the gauge glass being on that side would drive me up the wall.

Strange they don't provide tappings on both sides for that.

jonny88

Dave I think that is a beautiful neat job and hope the owner knows how far you went above the minimum boiler install requirements.
If you dont mind could you contact me as to how much your material list was etc.Where I am there are very few who could get the job you did as they want to be done in a day.Very nice thanks for sharing.

Snowmelt

great job how many zones are hydronic

Dave0176

Snowmelt said:

great job how many zones are hydronic

Just one zone for the newer addition family room.

Dave0176

I found this little gem on his kitchen radiator. This is after I scraped the 80 years of paint off and the siphon tube had broken off.

Fred

Very Nice!

j a_2

Nice job

Dave0176

All done...

RobG

Dave0176 said:

All done...

Not quite, the gas valve is closed and a combustion analysis still needs to be done. Nice work!

ChrisJ

RobG said:

Dave0176 said:

All done...

Not quite, the gas valve is closed and a combustion analysis still needs to be done. Nice work!

I'm curious,
Has anyone ever seen where a stock atmospheric boiler connected to the proper vent, with the proper manifold pressure failed an analysis? Is doing an analysis the quick and easy way to get an "all is well" on everything, vent and all?

I do hope guys check the manifold pressure as a minimum as mine was wrong when I changed the CGV. I was burning at 132,000 input instead of the proper 125,000 input. The Ecosteam was the first thing to give it away but checking it with a manometer confirmed it.

Whether or not that would really hurt anything I don't know, but I do know it wasn't correct as per the manufacturer's specifications.

j a_2

Clocking the meter is also one of the steps in initial start up along with a host of others..Clocking the meter is like checking your heart rate...kinda important... If nothing else go by the book would be my thinking

Abracadabra

Looks good. If I had to really find something to critique, it would be that there appears to be no vaporstat. I also like to pour a concrete base if I have time and it's not an emergency install in the middle of winter. I assume you are using the B&G to run a hot water zone?

ChrisJ

j a said:

Clocking the meter is also one of the steps in initial start up along with a host of others..Clocking the meter is like checking your heart rate...kinda important... If nothing else go by the book would be my thinking

I tried that and found it too difficult to get a perfect reading. Hooking up a manometer was easier for me and gave guaranteed results.

j a_2

Don't u use a manometer to check pressures? Clocking the meter is not the same thing, at least not to me..Yup there related but you gotta do all the checks

JStar

I've found that about 10-20% of all atmospheric boilers fail a combustion test on a new installation. It jumps to about 30-50% on older systems and service visits. Even if it were 0.00001%, that could be one life or one family in danger.

I clock the meter every time I'm installing or servicing a gas appliance. I rarely check gas pressure unless the combustion analysis is way off or the meter times out too high or low. Gas pressure alone doesn't give you the whole picture.

j a_2

We in my area have low gas pressure and dirty gas...Can't tell you how many time I had to call the gas company to install a in line filter...Dirty gas will and does clog up the inlet screen and plays havoc with operation ofthe newer gas valves...We all don't live in the same areas and often location dictates our thoughts...I installed a crap load of alpines when they were introduced to the market...Lots of upgrades have been made, I'll say this I needed a particular part not long ago...Factoy only, 1 week to get it....All the units are upgraded and changed, modules and control boards are one dash number off...Some you had the ability to not use the outdoor reset,recent changes for allow it on some equipment....Not a bad thing but that must be explained to end user that constant changes can be expected...There is so much to consider when installing appliances...Me I never rolled the dice I era on the side of caution, with customers comfort and safety of most importance

Dave0176

It's funny you guys are talking about all of this, I did clock the gas meter and did a manifold check. On the meter I clocked the two foot dial and 1:06 mins for a complete turn, and the gas pressures were 7" at the inlet and 3.6 on the outlet.

Steamhead

ChrisJ said:

I'm curious,
Has anyone ever seen where a stock atmospheric boiler connected to the proper vent, with the proper manifold pressure failed an analysis?

Yup.

Typically, this indicates a misaligned burner. If a burner is not properly seated the flame can impinge on the boiler sections or the refractory lining in the base. This will reduce the flame temperature, causing incomplete combustion and CO.

Dave0176

Hatterasguy said:

Dave0176 said:

It's funny you guys are talking about all of this, I did clock the gas meter and did a manifold check. On the meter I clocked the two foot dial and 1:06 mins for a complete turn, and the gas pressures were 7" at the inlet and 3.6 on the outlet.

Firing at about 112MBTU against the 100MBTU spec.

1:10 min would put it precisely on spec.

Oops I screwed up, I just looked at the stop watch and it was at 1:09.50

ChrisJ

j a said:

Don't u use a manometer to check pressures? Clocking the meter is not the same thing, at least not to me..Yup there related but you gotta do all the checks

I would like to think the burners would burn at the rate they are engineered to if supplied with the correct manifold pressure.

I know mine do.

But, I do see the other points. I wanted Jstar to do an analsys on mine just because I wanted a warm and fuzzy that it was burning right. I would hope even if it was burning horribly and spewing tons of CO that the proper flu would take all of it outside anyway, but I want things to be correct.

JStar

Hatterasguy said:

Dave0176 said:

It's funny you guys are talking about all of this, I did clock the gas meter and did a manifold check. On the meter I clocked the two foot dial and 1:06 mins for a complete turn, and the gas pressures were 7" at the inlet and 3.6 on the outlet.

Firing at about 112MBTU against the 100MBTU spec.

1:10 min would put it precisely on spec.

Depends on the specfic gravity and content of the gas in that neighborhood.

Steamhead

ChrisJ said:

I would hope even if it was burning horribly and spewing tons of CO that the proper flu would take all of it outside anyway, but I want things to be correct.

What happens to those tons of CO if the flue gets blocked?

This is why we check chimney bases and run combustion tests.

j a_2

And a host of other things like make up air...

Dave0176

The inspectors like it......

Dave0176

Did a little test today, it took 6 mins for the steam reach the end of the steam main which is 50 ft after the first riser got hot. The last 14 ft of main are just dry return before driping to boiler. Nothing is insulated, but the boiler has plenty in it. Im running 3 Gorton No.2s at the end of that dry return.

ChrisJ

Did the last radiator get hot at the same time as the first one?

JStar

ChrisJ said:

Did the last radiator get hot at the same time as the first one?

I know where this is going!

ChrisJ

JStar said:

ChrisJ said:

Did the last radiator get hot at the same time as the first one?

I know where this is going!

To St Louis in a box truck?

Dave0176

Lets put it this way the whole system heated pretty evenly. The last rad on that run probably took 5 extra mins to heat.

ChrisJ

Dave0176 said:

Lets put it this way the whole system heated pretty evenly. The last rad on that run probably took 5 extra mins to heat.

Sorry I missed this.
An extra 5 minutes!? If I get steam to a radiator 10 seconds slow I get annoyed.

What's the total run time?