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Don't see this every day.

Charlie from wmass
Charlie from wmass Member Posts: 4,216
edited July 2015 in Strictly Steam
Looked at a gas conversion today.
Thought you might like to see this old girl.
Cost is what you spend , value is what you get.

cell # 413-841-6726
https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/charles-garrity-plumbing-and-heating

Comments

  • Charlie from wmass
    Charlie from wmass Member Posts: 4,216
    edited July 2015
    Burner is way older then most people who post here.
    Cost is what you spend , value is what you get.

    cell # 413-841-6726
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/charles-garrity-plumbing-and-heating
  • Robert O'Brien
    Robert O'Brien Member Posts: 3,450
    Older than most people alive! :)
    To learn more about this professional, click here to visit their ad in Find A Contractor.
    Charlie from wmassSolid_Fuel_ManZman
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 15,329
    Yup, you can still find snowmen out there. What are you gonna put in?
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Towson, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
  • Charlie from wmass
    Charlie from wmass Member Posts: 4,216
    PEG 30 OR A PIN 3 EDR is 160.66
    Way too small to justify a wet base, budget constraints being at the for front as usual. Winnelson suggested a Crowne but I am not familiar with them aside from the nightmare I had last winter locating a blower for one.
    Cost is what you spend , value is what you get.

    cell # 413-841-6726
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/charles-garrity-plumbing-and-heating
  • kcopp
    kcopp Member Posts: 3,988
    My parents old gravity HW boiler....a Capitol-Winchester had an oil burner like that. ... it was just metallic blue, instead of red.
  • Henry
    Henry Member Posts: 995
    We do not permit conversion burners as the boiler/burner combination would have to have on sit certification. BTW, it also requires a liner.
  • Charlie from wmass
    Charlie from wmass Member Posts: 4,216
    Henry I am replacing the boiler not just the burner.
    Cost is what you spend , value is what you get.

    cell # 413-841-6726
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/charles-garrity-plumbing-and-heating
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 15,329
    Henry, you really need to know what you're reading. Here is Charlie's quote:

    "PEG 30 OR A PIN 3"

    PEG 30 is a Weil-McLain atmospheric gas boiler.

    PIN 3 is a Burnham atmospheric gas boiler.

    Charlie never said he was going to use a conversion burner on this job.

    Anyway, we've already discussed the conversion burner issue. Plenty of jurisdictions in the U.S. permit these units, and as they gain traction I'm sure they will gain greater acceptance. They are popular enough that there was a seminar/discussion on them at OESP Hershey- first time that's happened to my knowledge.

    Besides, boiler companies like Columbia and Slant/Fin have approved the use of gas conversion burners in their wet-base residential boilers.

    You can disapprove of conversion burners all you want, just like you disapprove of not ripping out or converting steam systems, but that doesn't affect us.
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Towson, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
    Robert O'Brienjonny88
  • Charlie from wmass
    Charlie from wmass Member Posts: 4,216
    edited July 2015
    Biasi, Trio, Buderus, Viessman, Weil McLain, Burnham, Smith, and several other manufacturers use gas power burners on their wet base boilers of various sizes even in Canada, in fact even in Europe. My father hated gas power burners because he never came across one installed properly. That is until I started installing them.
    Cost is what you spend , value is what you get.

    cell # 413-841-6726
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/charles-garrity-plumbing-and-heating
    Robert O'Brien
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 15,329

    My father hated gad power burners because he never came across one installed properly. That is until I started installing them.

    That makes all the difference!
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Towson, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
  • Dave in QCA
    Dave in QCA Member Posts: 1,776
    I love my wet base Weil-McLain 680 with Riello 2-stage GAS burner. I'm using 34% less gas than I was with the 1976 Pennco atmospheric boiler.
    Dave in Quad Cities, America
    Weil-McLain 680 with Riello 2-stage burner, December 2012. Firing rate=375MBH Low, 690MBH Hi.
    System = Early Dunham 2-pipe Vacuo-Vapor (inlet and outlet both at bottom of radiators) Traps are Dunham #2 rebuilt w. Barnes-Jones Cage Units, Dunham-Bush 1E, Mepco 1E, and Armstrong TS-2. All valves haveTunstall orifices sized at 8 oz.
    Current connected load EDR= 1,259 sq ft, Original system EDR = 2,100 sq ft Vaporstat, 13 oz cutout, 4 oz cutin - Temp. control Tekmar 279.
    http://grandviewdavenport.com
    Charlie from wmass
  • Charlie from wmass
    Charlie from wmass Member Posts: 4,216
    I like the 80 series. The most common boiler I install for their EDR range.
    Cost is what you spend , value is what you get.

    cell # 413-841-6726
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/charles-garrity-plumbing-and-heating
  • John Mills_5
    John Mills_5 Member Posts: 935
    Amazing how many people keep relic boilers that are probably costing them an absolute fortune to heat with.
  • Dave in QCA
    Dave in QCA Member Posts: 1,776
    But, it was supposedly no different than the product currently on the market. Cast iron sectional pinned boiler. Same ratings as current models. I have to admit, the difference may be that the atmospheric was firing well below the rated capacity. I have been advised by some of the pros that some atmospherics do very poorly in this mode of operation. The wet base power burner unit seems to love being under fired.
    Dave in Quad Cities, America
    Weil-McLain 680 with Riello 2-stage burner, December 2012. Firing rate=375MBH Low, 690MBH Hi.
    System = Early Dunham 2-pipe Vacuo-Vapor (inlet and outlet both at bottom of radiators) Traps are Dunham #2 rebuilt w. Barnes-Jones Cage Units, Dunham-Bush 1E, Mepco 1E, and Armstrong TS-2. All valves haveTunstall orifices sized at 8 oz.
    Current connected load EDR= 1,259 sq ft, Original system EDR = 2,100 sq ft Vaporstat, 13 oz cutout, 4 oz cutin - Temp. control Tekmar 279.
    http://grandviewdavenport.com
  • Charlie from wmass
    Charlie from wmass Member Posts: 4,216
    It is also stand by heat loss and excess combustion air during firing.
    Cost is what you spend , value is what you get.

    cell # 413-841-6726
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/charles-garrity-plumbing-and-heating
  • SWEI
    SWEI Member Posts: 7,356

    I think these mod-cons with intake air plumbed from outside the conditioned space provide the huge benefits in fuel consumption as compared to an older atmospheric unit. The 10% in combustion efficiency certainly doesn't offer it.

    I believe most of the benefits come from modulation (when properly sized.) Thermal equilibrium is a wonderful thing.
  • Charlie from wmass
    Charlie from wmass Member Posts: 4,216
    Excess combustion air also equates to more air infiltration of the building evelope. This as I think was already stated is one of the benifits of direct feed of combustion air to the burner from the outdoors. That cold air is not mixing with the heated air of the envelope.
    Cost is what you spend , value is what you get.

    cell # 413-841-6726
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/charles-garrity-plumbing-and-heating
  • Dave in QCA
    Dave in QCA Member Posts: 1,776
    edited July 2015
    With my old Pennco, after installing tunstall inlet orifices on all of the radiator valves, I had to reduce the firing rate to maintain an 8 oz pressure at the boiler. The orifices were sized based on 8 oz pressure and although I had already repaired all of the traps, I decided to go with orifices as a means to achieve even steam distribution, which has been a problem, and was completely remedied by the orifices.

    When the new boiler was installed and fired up, the firing rate needed to maintain 8 oz of pressure in the mains was 34% less than the old boiler. Nothing else had changed. When gas bills are analyzed, looking at selected months from old and new boiler, finding months with exactly the same average temperature and the same number of days in the billing cycle, again, we see a 34% reduction in usage. I was advised by one of the pros that my old Pennco boiler had a LOT of excess air when the firing rate was reduced and would have a big loss in efficiency as a result.

    Of course, there were many problems with the near boiler piping on the old boiler too. Other changes on the new system were the use of crossover traps to vent and a master check valve on the system vent point, so that air was kept out and the system draws a vacuum between firing.

    The old boiler had 2 14" diameter flues connected to the chimney and heat continued to roll out of the boiler during the off cycles. The boiler room does have a combustion air supply the opens only when the boiler is firing. No change with that before or after the new boiler was installed. However, the new boiler burner has a draft plate that closes when the boiler is not firing, stopping all draft and standby losses up the flue.

    I don't know exactly what accounts for the increase in efficiency. I tried to apply everything I learned from this site on the new install. We selected a company that did superb work in putting all of the near boiler piping together. I think the result is a combination of everything.

    Anyway, I didn't mean to hijack the thread, was just commenting that I installed a we based boiler with a gas power burner, and that the results were VERY good.
    Dave in Quad Cities, America
    Weil-McLain 680 with Riello 2-stage burner, December 2012. Firing rate=375MBH Low, 690MBH Hi.
    System = Early Dunham 2-pipe Vacuo-Vapor (inlet and outlet both at bottom of radiators) Traps are Dunham #2 rebuilt w. Barnes-Jones Cage Units, Dunham-Bush 1E, Mepco 1E, and Armstrong TS-2. All valves haveTunstall orifices sized at 8 oz.
    Current connected load EDR= 1,259 sq ft, Original system EDR = 2,100 sq ft Vaporstat, 13 oz cutout, 4 oz cutin - Temp. control Tekmar 279.
    http://grandviewdavenport.com
  • Charlie from wmass
    Charlie from wmass Member Posts: 4,216
    No Worries I never complain when my threads get hijacked, I do it a lot myself.
    Cost is what you spend , value is what you get.

    cell # 413-841-6726
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/charles-garrity-plumbing-and-heating