Are swing joints overrated???

Charlie from wmass

I was talking to Dr.Pepper himself today, we both agree that posting on here you better be doing it right.

Bob Bona_4

Without swings, drop headers would be something that fell on your foot.

EBEBRATT-Ed

I am a big time swing joint guy. Guess It came from installing all those underground oil tanks years ago. Engineers used to spec "double swing joints" 3 elbows. Tanks were never set in the ground perfectly straight, tappings seldom welded in the tanks straight vent lines and remote fill lines had to be pitched.

Steam, to me it's the right thing to do---make things FIT we are all pipe FITTERS not pipe BENDERS. Put a lot of strain on it and it may leak, maybe not today but someday, expansion, contraction causes leaks.

Then if you do get a leak with no swing joints you have backed yourself into a corner and made it a tough fix.

JMHO

Gordo

I do like how Peerless states in their instructions in bold print - use threaded pipe and fittings!

Thank you Peerles for taking a stand! Peerles is most likely the only boiler manufacturer that will put that in writing.

And thank you for your excellent "Colors of Steam" manuals!




I'd heard from a customer that they had called Weil Mclain tech service and asked the person who answered the phone if copper headers were OK after I had informed said customer that copper for steam piping was "problematic". Weil told that customer that copper headers for steam boilers were just fine.

j a_2

null
My reference to reading is about the near boiler piping of a steam.boiler..Seriously, if you are a true steam guy installing all the time and need to look at pics of piping in the book, something is wrong...that's all I was referring to about reading.... I think whoever the fellow is that installed the boiler in this post is in way to far over his head. I still hope he is joshing us...

Charlie from wmass

My point about reading the manual every time is it takes 2 minutes if you have a minamal idea of what is going on and I like confirmation of the NWL and pipe sizes.

ChrisJ

Charlie from wmass said:

My point about reading the manual every time is it takes 2 minutes if you have a minamal idea of what is going on and I like confirmation of the NWL and pipe sizes.

Sounds like we agree.

j a_2

Can't go wrong with reading...,No argument from me...

jonny88

Super Dan where are you.25yrs service tech and a lic plr you could at least try and rebute some of the arguments here.Feedback is what makes us better.What are your thoughts?A re-pipe or ignore all above.

KC_Jones

He hasn't logged in since making the post. Either he is reading this without logging in and we won't hear from him again or he hasn't read any of this yet. Hard to say.

Steamhead

Well, if

Steamhead

Well, if SUPER DAN thinks we're picking on him, here is another example where we did exactly the same thing:

http://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/141781/commercial-install

ChrisJ

I don't think he's logged in. Forum says last activity June 10th.

jumper

EBEBRATT-Ed said:

I am a big time swing joint guy. Guess It came from installing all those underground oil tanks years ago. Engineers used to spec "double swing joints" 3 elbows. Tanks were never set in the ground perfectly straight, tappings seldom welded in the tanks straight vent lines and remote fill lines had to be pitched.

Steam, to me it's the right thing to do---make things FIT we are all pipe FITTERS not pipe BENDERS. Put a lot of strain on it and it may leak, maybe not today but someday, expansion, contraction causes leaks.

Then if you do get a leak with no swing joints you have backed yourself into a corner and made it a tough fix.

JMHO

I meant to post similar sentiments about take-offs. Stuff moves and then without triple elbows everything stays crooked. I suspect that single pipe steam was often chosen mostly to avoid a second hookup to each radiator.

JUGHNE

Super Dan seems to be staying in the bushes for the time being. I did go and read most of his other postings/discussions and the Munchken posting from 2010 showed his personal boiler, I believe someone here said they would hire him on workmanship alone. I was petty impressed by his work. The bullhead and no swings jumped out right away, but just the tidy look of install was, I thought, impressive. If I were hiring for this trade I would consider him because of piping talents. But if I said do swing 90's and no bullheads and that was not done, then pretty soon I would be firing.

Some posts above seem to imply that don't come to the wall if you don't do or know what you should do. If everyone knew the correct methods we would not need the wall.

I think Super Dan (if he is really there in NJ, since 2010) should poke his head up and say something.

He is getting a little beat up from his new ideas and should realize that old methods from 100 years past have a purpose.

I used to look at steam piping that old and think that the dead men were just trying to empty the fitting buckets. But after being here and a lot of reading I understand more of the reasons of how things are done.

jumper

JUGHNE said:

Super Dan seems to be staying in the bushes for the time being. I did go and read most of his other postings/discussions and the Munchken posting from 2010 showed his personal boiler, I believe someone here said they would hire him on workmanship alone. I was petty impressed by his work. The bullhead and no swings jumped out right away, but just the tidy look of install was, I thought, impressive. If I were hiring for this trade I would consider him because of piping talents. But if I said do swing 90's and no bullheads and that was not done, then pretty soon I would be firing.

Some posts above seem to imply that don't come to the wall if you don't do or know what you should do. If everyone knew the correct methods we would not need the wall.

I think Super Dan (if he is really there in NJ, since 2010) should poke his head up and say something.

He is getting a little beat up from his new ideas and should realize that old methods from 100 years past have a purpose.

I used to look at steam piping that old and think that the dead men were just trying to empty the fitting buckets. But after being here and a lot of reading I understand more of the reasons of how things are done.

With due respect to DeadOldMen there are probably legacy reasons for many of the things they did. Also on my computer the keep me logged in isn't working so perhaps SuperD is reading but not choosing to respond. Some of the comments are personally nasty.

ChrisJ

Not only did the "dead men" do swing joints, all boiler manufacturers require them and they do so for a good reason.

Like I said previously, I don't think he did this with any malicious intent, but either way it still voids the block warranty and very well can cause damage.

Not to mention the tee on the end of the header is flat out wrong and without a doubt causes wet steam. My system runs at 0.50" to 0.75" WC steam pressure and if I even add too much water treatment that pressure shoots way up to 8" WC. Sure it's still low, but it's still 10 to 16 times the pressure I normally run. I bet that tee on the end has a similar effect if not worse.

jonny88

@ChrisJ ok I know we dont discuss pricing here but tell me what was the total cost of your material for your boiler.Its a beauty.

RobG

Can we all stop beating a dead horse? I think the point has been made.