ABS and PVC

NoeVillegas

Can you use ABS and PVC fittings/glue conversely? I have A leaky 1 1/2 ABS kitchen drain that requires a new tee. ABS is hard to find around here.

RobG

No, you should use some type of mechanical fitting, either an ABS to PVC male and female adapter screwed together or a no-hub coupling. All-purpose cement is not a solvent weld.

JUGHNE

I just cut out the ABS stuff. Join PVC fittings/assembly to ABS stub with a Fernco or hubless rubber coupling.

May not be code/legal but makes for easy clean out if needed.
Some here will disagree but no problem in my area.

Mad Dog_2

No. I don't know where u are, but NYC and NYS prohibit mixing ANY plastics that are not of the same makeup. You might "get by" doing it, but the chemical differences might react detrimentaly. Any chemical engineers here to
'Splain? Mad Dog

Hilly

Oatey's Green/White label is a Transition Cement designed for ABS->PVC I wonder if it does PVC->ABS hahaha

RobG

Hilly said:

Oatey's Green/White label is a Transition Cement designed for ABS->PVC I wonder if it does PVC->ABS hahaha

If your gonna use all-purpose cement you may as well be using Elmers glue.

delta T

I'm with Rob on this one. I've done a fair amount of waste and vents in both ABS and PVC and I used the combo glue once for a quick repair job, and it leaked. On every joint. Never again. I have never had a no hub leak (assuming proper sizing, a full metal band and proper installation).

My feeling is that the transition glue was a compromise on both sides. It kind of works for each material, but not very well. I would be very curious to hear from a chemical engineer on how it works considering the chemistry of an ABS joint and PVC joint are so different.

RobG

ron said:

used the oatey all-purpose cement, have not had a problem.
I also had hacked in white pvc to black abs on my pump up bucket for my washing machine in basement and the pieces that i had glued were solid and never leaked.
this is what i used
http://www.oatey.com/products/plastic-pipe-cements-and-primers/oatey-specialty-cements/all-purpose-cement

Welcome to the hack club.

Sam81

By nys code (ipc) it is not legel to join them together by glue, but we been using the transition glue for many years and have them approved by inspectors, u gotta use primer on the PVC side, and it is a slow set vs all other. But never had a problem with it

RobG

Sam81 said:

By nys code (ipc) it is not legel to join them together by glue, but we been using the transition glue for many years and have them approved by inspectors, u gotta use primer on the PVC side, and it is a slow set vs all other. But never had a problem with it

Why not just do it correctly the first time? I see stuff all the time that says "All Purpose", and it may work. That doesn't make it legal. If a joint were done with all purpose cement and caused a damaging leak in a home do you think the insurance company not going to go after the company that used an unapproved product?

Not on my watch!

Sam81

It comes in when u do remodel and its all done abs or vise versa,

RobG

A solvent weld breaks down the material of both the pipe and fitting enabling them to be as close to "one" piece without doing a fusion weld. If you have ever tried to separate a fitting from a piece of pipe you will understand. With all-purpose it is just gluing the joint and not bonding it (making it one). I hope that made sense?

Zman

RobG said:

A solvent weld breaks down the material of both the pipe and fitting enabling them to be as close to "one" piece without doing a fusion weld. If you have ever tried to separate a fitting from a piece of pipe you will understand. With all-purpose it is just gluing the joint and not bonding it (making it one). I hope that made sense?

This makes perfect sense....
If a person who has very little pride in there work wants to cobble a bunch of different products together, the multi cements will probably hold together for a good long time.
If the work is done in an exposed location like the OP's under sink location, the job can be easily redone when it eventually leaks.
The bottom line is that it does not meet code and is really a hack repair. It should never be done in a concealed location.
The abs and pvc products are very different chemically and were never intended to be used together.

Carl

RobG

Why not just take half a can of PVC cement and mix it with half a can of ABS cement and shake well? If one cement would do it all why do they make ABS cement AND PVC cement? As stated above, they are two different chemical compounds. If you filled your car with half diesel and half premium gasoline would your car run? Maybe? But would it be right? No!

Zman

RobG said:

Why not just take half a can of PVC cement and mix it with half a can of ABS cement and shake well? If one cement would do it all why do they make ABS cement AND PVC cement? As stated above, they are two different chemical compounds. If you filled your car with half diesel and half premium gasoline would your car run? Maybe? But would it be right? No!

I actually think that the diesel and gas mix would do a better job of bonding PVC and ABS.

@ron
If you are not convinced, why don't you glue some fittings together with the different options, then deconstruct them.
Let us know how it works out.
You are arguing from the point of a the convenient way to get a job done. Why not back up you assertions with some tests.
I have personally pulled apart joints glued with multi cement with my hands.

MikeL_2

I think the thing I appreciate most about this website / forum is the willingness of all participants to share their experience, tips, techniques, policies, procedures, technical support, errors, opinions, sacrifices, and successes. This dynamic creates an opportunity for learning.
Charlotte Pipe Company does not recommend the use of combination glue / solvent, and, does not list it for use with any of their products in their technical literature; I have had to invent many temporary, safe repairs during my career, but, always returned to make permanent compliant repairs as soon as possible.

Harvey Ramer

I have done it once or twice in accessible locations. The first time I tried it, I found that I could break the joint apart with my bare hands. That didn't sit well, so I investigated some more. I discovered the primer was softening and breaking down the ABS, hence the glue had nothing to grab to. I tried a couple different products and found that using "Harvey's Cleaner" along with PVC glue made a strong bond. Even so, I can't say I recommend that as a permanent solution. Especially on joints that will be inaccessible.

MikeL_2

The Charlotte Plastics Tech Manual can be downloaded from the Charlotte Pipe website - this manual is a must read for all involved in our trade.....................

RobG

ron said:

MikeL said:

Charlotte Pipe Company does not recommend the use of combination glue / solvent, and, does not list it for use with any of their products in their technical literature; .

can you post a link to that technical literature?
if there is some other method to it besides referring to the ASTM... American Society for Testing & Materials... please let me know.

if you state use a glue/cement meeting ASTM-whatever for joining a specific type of pipe, then how can you go on to recommend against something labelled "all-purpose" when it still meets that ASTM spec ?

me personally when i see contradictory crap like that I start looking for different suppliers/manufacturers and that's for anything not just plumbing.

See page 86 of the attached document. Look at the last sentence of step 7. As I stated earlier the proper way to join the two materials is by screwing them together or using a No-hub coupling.

Shane_2

" My friend's, uncles', cousin is a master plumber and he uses all-purpose glue all day long and never has a leak"



Use the proper glue with the proper pipe. If you have to make a transition use a No-hub or a mechanical joint. Just because the guy in the orange smock said all-purpose would work, it's not the right way to do it.

Even in a bind, I'm pretty sure the home centers have male/female adapters in both materials.

RobG

Someone on the site has the tagline "You can choose to do what you want, but you can't choose the consequences". Do what you want.

NoeVillegas

This is what I found out I should use.Primerand glue on PVC side and glue only on ABS side. Code states only one transition piece allowed. Not to be used with a bunch of PVC and ABS pieces mixed together. I appreciate all the help. Thanks guys.

JUGHNE

So you have been without a drain for the last 15 days? (must be single)
A No-Hub or fernco costs less than a pint of anything. (and smells a lot better)
Aren't there entire buildings connected with No-Hub couplings?
But this has been very educational and informational....that is what Wall discussions are all about.

Intplm.

Not a big thing. I have seen some of the building shows filmed in Canada using a purpose / multipurpose glue.

Sure it's against code.

Approved transitions are : male to female adapter, slip nut adapters , no hub clamps and Fernco couplings.

What's the big concern? If it is your house, do what you must.

Ask a professional and they will tell you to do the best job possible, and that would be the approved transitions listed above.

nibs

A note about using the "Robar" style sleeve/hose clamp type connections, used one on my kitchen sink to ease assembly and it plugged up about 4 or 5 times over the first few years, I think solids were catching on the downstream lip. has not plugged up for at least 5 years now.