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recovery questions

One bottle for r22, one bottle for 410a that will be recycled.does it make sense when recovering to do repairs to hold in bottle and put back in system? I have always been in the habit that if you use virgin you are safer. Do you reslly know if the refrigerant is good or not, moidure, oils , dirt etc. This question came up recently from another tech.

Comments

  • Techman
    Techman Member Posts: 2,144
    Change the FilterDrier, add a SightGlassMoistureIndicator, put the recovered freon back in.
  • pecmsg
    pecmsg Member Posts: 2,130
    If the recovery tank is empty and clean then you can recover and reuse in equipment owned by the same party. If there’s refrigerant in the recovery tank then it cannot be reused and must be recycled.
  • NYplumber
    NYplumber Member Posts: 503
    I agree with techman.

    Just an interesting idea I read about. If you have used refrigerant in a recovery cylinder (that doesnt match up 100% with the T&P charts) and it sits for 24hrs you can purge the air off the top into another recovery cylinder.

    My question is, does the filter drier act like an air separator in an hvac-r system, or does it just soak up debris, acid, and moisture?
    :NYplumber:
  • Techman
    Techman Member Posts: 2,144
    Debris,acid, and moisture, and wax. The air would stay in the cond unit and cause hi head problems. The air is a "non-condensible" so it doesn't condense.
  • John Mills_5
    John Mills_5 Member Posts: 935
    We've never reused gas, just seems like asking for trouble.
  • Techman
    Techman Member Posts: 2,144
    edited May 2015
    I have MAYBE, 2 recovery cylinders w/ BAD freon in them.And that is from the beginning of time( Time since RRR). I guess its a matter of defining what BAD freon is. I recover freon thru a set of hi side/lo side filter driers . I re-use the two FD a dozen or more times. And I put the same freon back into the system, and I do not have freon related problems. I NEVER use my Recovery Pump w/o those twoFD, the oil in the R-pump stays clean for a long time . I change the system FD, for sure. So I guess I'm doing something wrong.

    A customer GAVE me his recovered 22 freon ,from a converted R system, to new cond unit using a different freon. Its mine now, so I sold it to another customer. I've pulled out lots of "over charged " freon" , one customer didn't want to pay for a recovery tank to store his freon in his bldg so I inherited that freon, 20 or so lbs. I have about 14-18 Recovery cylinders out there at the customers location.
  • NYplumber
    NYplumber Member Posts: 503
    Hey Techman, got a few short questions for you.

    When your done with the recovery, do you cap the driers, or leave them open to the atmosphere?
    Do you leave them on the recovery machine?
    If you cap them and theyre still connected to the recovery machine, you will build pressure in the machine. Appion says not to build pressure (ie closing the valves and storing the machine).

    Im curious what your recovery setup is like.
    :NYplumber:
  • Techman
    Techman Member Posts: 2,144
    Good Morning NYplumber, I have a canvas bag that I keep the two FD's( EK162) in w/ plastic caps and extra hoses just for the recovery stuff . The hoses are sealed (w/ 1/4 SAE union) and the Recovery pump is not pressurized beyond that of just a little bit of vapor, just like the slight press in my Manifolds- 6 sets AND 1 Evac Manifold w/ a 3/8 line to the evac pump.I'm not sure what Appion wants.
  • NYplumber
    NYplumber Member Posts: 503
    Sorry for the threadjack Paul.

    Another recovery Q for Techman:

    When taking some refrigerant out of an overcharged system (just a hose and tank), do you use a FD inline then to prevent recovering garbage?
    :NYplumber:
  • Techman
    Techman Member Posts: 2,144
    Yes.
  • Techman
    Techman Member Posts: 2,144
    KindaSorta,something like this!
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 11,792
    Hey that's the same RUUD that used to do my office at work until it's compressor failed and than shortly later it had a leak. Personally I think the guys that brazed the compressor and TXV without nitrogen likely had a leak, but no one else thought so.

    I suspect the original compressor died from slugging.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • Techman
    Techman Member Posts: 2,144
    edited June 2015
    SLUGGING? Oh MY ChrisJ. I feel faint ! This is for a 33year customer. I donot, do not, don't allow, will not allow, can't have, must not have SLUGGING or any other compressor killing things !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. OH MY!

    Generator surges. 5 units-1 Comp, 3 volt/phase monitors, 2 Cond fan rpm controllers , 2 CCH, 3 tripped 3pole breakers, 1 convience outlet CB tripped. Thats today ,just to get them up and running. I wipe the dust off of my comps, and no damn spider webs, either.
    ChrisJ
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 11,792
    Yep, the building I work in has zero ventilation and no windows open so if the building is 85F and it's 50F outside guess what's getting turned on?

    No heater on the compressor and even if it did I have a feeling slugging is still possible, no?

    There's a new system installed and we're in the same situation.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • Techman
    Techman Member Posts: 2,144
    Oh sure its possible( for someone else) BUT NOT ON MY CUSTOMERS COMPS. I don't allow it! These 5 CU are on pump down.
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 11,792
    You probably also flow nitrogen when brazing too.

    The guy that works for my boss says it isn't necessary. I told the boss not to use him anymore but he still does.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • Techman
    Techman Member Posts: 2,144
    I try to practice what I've learned in my 200+ schools/classes/seminars, thats all.
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 11,792
    Did you learn to flow nitrogen when brazing?
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • Techman
    Techman Member Posts: 2,144
    Decadesss ago.
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 8,542
    I believe I recall reading from a now dusty book on the shelve that the vapor filtering mode (suction line) is the most effective way to remove acid and the liquid line filter is the most effective to remove moisture. Do you filter each line out of the ACU or just the liquid line into recovery machine? If each line then is a "small" liquid line filter effective in the vapor side for acid removal?

    Of course an acid test and your nose would tell you if the gas was really burned.
  • Techman
    Techman Member Posts: 2,144
    edited June 2015
    JUGHNE, a really good point! And I agree w/ you about the SL/LL FD doing different work..There is a BIG difference between bad/burnt/acidic oil and bad/burnt/acidic freon.
    I never meant to make anyone think that by me using two LLFD during recovery ,is a cure all . Acids, moisture and other stuff require many passes thru the FD's to clean a running system. I am mainly concerned about debris and solids. The SL/LL FD's of the HH persuasion in the system do the real work. Now, what I do ,works for me. Now , I maybe flapping jaws here and maybe I'm bending a law or two ,but , a comp that I put in damn near 40 years ago is still running . AND more jaw flapping, I have replaced a lot of comps this year, so far in 2015 ,I'm up to a grand total of 4. AND, AND, more jaw flapping; In the following new category, I'll wager that I'm in the lower ranking/rating.

    The number of compressors that you are responsible for vs. the number of compressors that die/get replaced in a year. Excluding new customers. Flapping Jaws.

    Oh, DON'T SNIFF, please. A little little whiff by accident is something else.
  • NYplumber
    NYplumber Member Posts: 503
    Techman, its difficult to see in the photos, but what fittings are on the filter driers?

    Thanks
    :NYplumber:
  • Techman
    Techman Member Posts: 2,144
    NYplumber, I wrote that the LLFD were 162's(16cu in x 1/4 msae) ,but they are not,they are actually c165(16 cu in x 5/8 male flare) so there is an adapter, 5/8 FSAE x 3/8 MSAE then another adapter 3/8 FSAE x 1/4 MSAE. I have a couple of extra c-165's on my shelves,so I'm utilizing them and there is "flare gaskets" in there also.